#UFchat – chat for urban fantasy writers

Transcript for December 4th, 2010: The Human Factor in UF MCs

This week’s TOPIC: The Human Factor – from mundane human to magical hybrid: how human are/do you want our UF MCs to be – really?

We look at just how human UF MCs really are. Are they as much like us as we think they are? Do we really want them to be? Are they really just like us but with xtra-great boots & xtra-fast sass? The human side of our MCs – what makes them like us?

Official UFchat questions in YELLOW for easier reading.

Resources/ topic-related links are in BLUE.

10:29 pm sandrawickham: RT @shadowflame1974: 30 minutes to chat time. How human are UF MCs? Come join us in the discussion #UFchat
10:30 pm inkgypsy: #Ufchat people alert! RT @Jess_Haines: Woo hoo! Finally put up a new blog post. Obits, free books, giveaways, more… http://bit.ly/hP28GA
10:33 pm shadowflame1974: RT: @inkgypsy: #Ufchat people alert! RT @Jess_Haines!Finally put up a new blog post. Obits, free books, giveaways, more http://bit.ly/hP28GA
10:42 pm shadowflame1974: 20 minutes! Is being human enough? This weeks discussion: The Human Factor- how human are UF MCs. come join us #UFchat
10:43 pm inkgypsy: @Ben_Aaronovitch Primer for #UFchat procrastin-early birds: Jane True: Nobody?s Straight Man http://bit.ly/d4DpfH #UFchat
10:45 pm inkgypsy: Do you like reading UF from Frankenstein’s POV? His monster’s POV? Who do you relate to more? The Human Factor in UF – #UFchat in 15 mins!
10:45 pm UF_Chat: Do you like reading UF from Frankenstein’s POV? His monster’s POV? Who do you relate to more? The Human Factor in UF – #UFchat in 15 mins!
10:45 pm shadowflame1974: RT @inkgypsy: @Ben_Aaronovitch Primer for #UFchat procrastin-early birds: Jane True: Nobody?s Straight Man http://bit.ly/d4DpfH #UFchat
10:50 pm inkgypsy: Primer for #UFchat early birds: Jane True: Nobody?s Straight Man http://bit.ly/d4DpfH #UFchat
10:50 pm UF_Chat: Primer for #UFchat early birds: Jane True: Nobody?s Straight Man http://bit.ly/d4DpfH #UFchat
10:50 pm shadowflame1974: RT @UF_Chat: Primer for #UFchat early birds: Jane True: Nobody?s Straight Man http://bit.ly/d4DpfH #UFchat
10:51 pm inkgypsy: Changing to my #UFchat moderator boots & swapping zombie brain for thinking cap. See you at #UFchat in 10 – no 9! – minutes!
10:51 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: #UFchat Quick Robin – to the coffee cave!
10:52 pm shadowflame1974: 10 minutes folks! grab your hats we are going on a wild ride today! Is being HUMAN enough to beat the monsters share your thoughts #UFchat
10:52 pm inkgypsy: @RCMurphy Are you joining us in #UFchat today? πŸ˜‰
10:53 pm inkgypsy: RT @shadowflame1974: 10 minutes folks! grab your hats we are going on a wild ride today! Is being HUMAN enough to beat the monsters share your thoughts #UFchat
10:53 pm leapetra: I think I will actually make it to the chat today! #ufchat
10:53 pm shadowflame1974: @leapetra awesome! #UFchat
10:53 pm rcmurphy: @inkgypsy I would if I had more braincells. One of my UF novels does have a human MC. But I’m about ready to nap at my desk. lol #UFchat
10:54 pm shadowflame1974: @rcmurphy awww hugs hon. #UFchat
10:54 pm inkgypsy: @RCMurphy It’s not really about humans so much as how we humans relate to the non humans we write. πŸ˜‰ (oops – gave it away) #UFchat
10:55 pm Preternatural__: Never stopped in, but @inkgypsy s a sweetheart so, I can’t resist πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:56 pm shadowflame1974: @Preternatural__ hey welcome! #UFchat
10:57 pm UF_Chat: TODAY: The Human Factor – from mundane human to magical hybrid: how human are/do you want our UF MCs to be – really? #UFchat
10:57 pm inkgypsy: TODAY: The Human Factor – from mundane human to magical hybrid: how human are/do you want our UF MCs to be – really? #UFchat
10:57 pm rcmurphy: @inkgypsy *snorts* I’m one with the monsters, dude. It’s harder for me to write plain ol’ humans. #UFchat
10:57 pm J_GriffinB: Here…and hankering… #ufchat
10:58 pm UF_Chat: Do our MCs stand out from crowd b/c they’re the humans we WANT to be or b/c they’re MORE? UF MCs & being human TODAY #UFchat
10:58 pm inkgypsy: Do our MCs stand out from crowd b/c they’re the humans we WANT to be or b/c they’re MORE? UF MCs & being human TODAY #UFchat
10:58 pm inkgypsy: @RCMurphy My point exactly. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
10:59 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: My MC is human – he just came out that way. #UFchat
10:59 pm leapetra: @inkgypsy the ones I write about, they try to separate themselves from humans. #ufchat
10:59 pm shadowflame1974: @rcmurphy we all write monsters, just sometimes they are hidden in with the sheep πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
11:00 pm inkgypsy: @shadowflame1974 baaa! #UFchat (That wasn’t me – it was the sheep behind me)
11:00 pm inkgypsy: @leapetra Interesting how we (both sides) have insistence on segregation.. #UFchat
11:00 pm UF_Chat: 3, 2… & now live with #UFchat! Standing out from the crowd are our UF MCs ? is it because they?re a little bit more than human? #UFchat
11:01 pm shadowflame1974: @inkgypsy lol #UFchat
11:01 pm leapetra: @inkgypsy one of my MC’s became upset, because he became attracted to a woman. It unnerved him. #ufchat
11:01 pm UF_Chat: TODAY: We look at just how human UF MCs really are. Are they as much like us as we think they are? Do we really want them to be? #UFchat
11:01 pm UF_Chat: Are they really just like us but with xtra-great boots & xtra-fast sass? The human side of our MCs ? what makes them like us? #UFchat
11:01 pm inkgypsy: @leapetra I like that! #UFchat
11:02 pm UF_Chat: Reminder: ?S? stands for statement, which will be followed by a ?Q? (a related #UFchat question for discussion). #UFchat
11:02 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: The monster/human line can be very blurry in my stuff #UFchat
11:02 pm UF_Chat: I just got a message Twitter went down but I’m back! #UFchat
11:02 pm UF_Chat: Q1: Consider the ?big?/most longtime-popular UF series. Are the MCs all-human, part-human or not-at-all-human? #UFchat
11:02 pm J_GriffinB: #UFChat starting now! @Karen_Hooper @saramcclung @gina_penn @cvaldezmiller #UFChat starting now! #ufchat
11:02 pm UF_Chat: S: I?ll post an author & their series & you guys fill in the MCs (not just lead character) – name + humans/part-humans/etc #UFchat
11:03 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: A fantastic person in a mundane world is fun but so is a mundane person in a fantastic world. #UFchat
11:03 pm UF_Chat: Please note: chosen/magical destiny/enhanced abilities due to such does NOT equal 100% human. #UFchat
11:03 pm UF_Chat: Kim Harrison?s The Hollows series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:03 pm UF_Chat: Jim Butcher?s Dresden Files: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:03 pm UF_Chat: Patricia Briggs? Mercedes Thompson series:MCs & how human are they? #UFchat
11:03 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat Dresden: the Wizards are not entirely human #UFchat
11:03 pm UF_Chat: Kelley Armstrong?s Women of the Otherworld: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:04 pm UF_Chat: Carrie Vaughn?s Kitty Norville series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:04 pm UF_Chat: Rob Thurman?s Cal Leandros series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:04 pm UF_Chat: Charlaine Harris? Sookie Stackhouse series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:04 pm shadowflame1974: Mercedes Thompson- half human skinwalker #UFchat
11:04 pm UF_Chat: Ilona Andrews? Kate Daniels series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:04 pm UF_Chat: Vicki Pettersson?s Signs of the Zodiac series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:04 pm sandrawickham: @UF_Chat Hi everyone, I’m new here so I just wanted to introduce myself. *waves* #UFchat
11:05 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: God there are so many series I haven’t had time to read yet! #UFchat
11:05 pm UF_Chat: Simon R. Green?s Nightside series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:05 pm UF_Chat: Rachel Caine?s Weather Warden series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:05 pm shadowflame1974: @sandrawickham hey hon! Welcome! #UFchat
11:05 pm UF_Chat: @sandrawickham Welcome! Jump in. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:05 pm shadowflame1974: @Ben_Aaronovitch I KNOW! lol #UFchat
11:05 pm UF_Chat: Laurell K. Hamilton?s Anita Blake series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:05 pm UF_Chat: Joss Whedon?s Buffy the Vampire Slayer series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:05 pm leapetra: @sandrawickham HI #ufchat
11:05 pm UF_Chat: Lilith Saintcrow?s Jill Kismet & Dante Valentine series: who are main characters & how human are they? #UFchat
11:06 pm UF_Chat: Q1a: What other big UF series characters spring to mind and how human are they? #UFchat
11:06 pm shadowflame1974: Believe that the MC on the Vicki Peterson’s books was human but I could be wrong. #UFchat
11:07 pm UF_Chat: @Ben_Aaronovitch One of the reasons I’m posting a selection – rarely meet someone who’s read even all the big ones. So many! #UFchat
11:07 pm shadowflame1974: @cemurphy Walker Papers Human with destiny. Not completely human #UFchat
11:07 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: S1a shevdens 61 nails has a human MC who rapidly becomes non-human. #UFchat
11:07 pm sandrawickham: @shadowflame1974 They’re all super heroes (either dark or light) in Vicki Petersson’s series. So, human with super powers. #ufchat
11:07 pm NLGervasio: has errands to run and will miss #UFchat AGAIN! Crap.
11:07 pm UF_Chat: @shadowflame1974 Well – no actually. She was a ‘something’ she got from her mother & her father too – passed it on to her daughter.. #UFchat
11:07 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat except for Angel, Oz, Spike, and the demon whose name escapes me. all were human #ufchat
11:08 pm UF_Chat: @NLGervasio 😦 mIss ya! Be safe. #UFchat
11:08 pm J_GriffinB: @leapetra Not if a destiny applies… #ufchat
11:08 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra Buffy wasn’t – chosen & given special powers but her Scoobies mostly were. #UFchat
11:08 pm shadowflame1974: I only got a bit through the first book b4 I had to give it back. lol #UFchat
11:08 pm sandrawickham: @UF_Chat Kim Harrison – Witch, Vampire, Pixie..and werewolf. I’d say her characters are still very “human” though. #ufchat
11:09 pm J_GriffinB: I’m remarkably under-read in the genre. #ufchat
11:09 pm shadowflame1974: so perhaps it is safe to say that Most, UF MCs are a little more than human #UFchat
11:09 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: I remember there being a really good speech about destiny in ‘He Man: the Movie’ of all things. #UFchat
11:09 pm NLGervasio: But that doesn’t mean you can’t join! *winks* #UFchat! TODAY: The Human Factor – how human are UF MCs – really? Just started!!! GO!
11:09 pm UF_Chat: I should repost 1a. Q1a: What other big UF series characters spring to mind and how human are they? #UFchat
11:09 pm J_GriffinB: @sandrawickham That’s the thing, I think. Regardless of the supernatural, all the best fiction illuminates the human condition. #ufchat
11:10 pm Jinxie_G: RT @NLGervasio: But that doesn’t mean you can’t join! *winks* #UFchat! TODAY: The Human Factor – how human are UF MCs – really? Just started!!! GO!
11:10 pm shadowflame1974: @Ben_Aaronovitch oh really? much as I hate to go back to that, will have to look it up #UFchat
11:10 pm UF_Chat: @Ben_Aaronovitch You saw that? (S’ok – I know people who worked on it) #UFchat
11:10 pm leapetra: What I like about Buffy is when Oz found out he was a werewolf, he was the same, no flip out #ufchat
11:10 pm UF_Chat: @shadowflame1974 Interesting – no? #UFchat
11:10 pm sandrawickham: @UF_Chat Kat Richardson’s Greywalker series, main character is human, but has died. Other than that, very human. #ufchat
11:10 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat Saw it I stole ideas from it #UFchat
11:10 pm shadowflame1974: @UF_Chat very much so. πŸ˜€ #UFchat
11:11 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra I liked that too – didn’t transform his essential self. just another dimension to his Oz-ness. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:11 pm UF_Chat: @sandrawickham She can see ghosts though, right? (been a while) #UFchat
11:12 pm UF_Chat: Q2: Are there any 100% human/not ?chosen?/no special abilities main characters in the most popular UF series? #UFchat
11:12 pm sandrawickham: @UF_Chat She sees into the “grey”, so she can see vampires, ghosts etc, yes. #ufchat
11:13 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat Xander #UFchat
11:13 pm sandrawickham: @UF_Chat Q2 @dianarowland has a main character who is human, but can summon demons, because she’s learned how. Does that count? #ufchat
11:13 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat Not usually. Most 100%ers are victims in waiting. #ufchat
11:13 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat Sorry S2: Xander #UFchat
11:13 pm inkgypsy: @sara_UFblog Hi! We’re having #UFchat right now if you’d like to take a peek. Talking about human factor in UF today. πŸ™‚
11:14 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @inkgypsy Q2: Does Haven count? #UFchat
11:14 pm shadowflame1974: @sandrawickham she’s got a special power… yep it counts lol #UFchat
11:14 pm inkgypsy: @Ben_Aaronovitch Um… I cannot remember! (cringe face) #UFchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: S: The ?big? MCs of Urban Fantasy are – for the most part – not completely human yet one of the big ?draws? people cite of UF… #UFchat
11:15 pm leapetra: xander is the best one. He stopped Willow from destroying the world, just by talking to her! #ufchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: S cont: … is the human factor/characters holding their own against the supernatural. #UFchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: Q3: What is considered ?human? in UF? #UFchat
11:16 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat Warlock was a film that had some 100%ers as MC. #ufchat
11:16 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra Season 6 was incredibly dark but had some of the best stuff. Willow insane baddie. Xander powerful 100% human. #UFchat
11:16 pm shadowflame1974: Q3 plain old vanilla humans. no extra powers. #UFchat
11:16 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @J_GriffinB Richard E. Grant #ufchat
11:16 pm shadowflame1974: Man I SOOO need to watch Buffy #UFchat
11:17 pm Preternatural__: I think that the struggle is mostly to see that the paranormal doesn’t swallow the human aspect of the characters whole #UFchat
11:17 pm UF_Chat: Q3a: What qualities make a character MORE human than not? #UFchat
11:17 pm jennspiller: @UF_Chat @leapetra I just watched all my favorite season 6 eps. It is my fav season. Love the dark. #UFchat
11:17 pm J_GriffinB: @Ben_Aaronovitch @J_GriffinB Pardon? #ufchat
11:18 pm leapetra: In my books I have one human with no special powers, unless you can count building a motorcycle one #ufchat
11:18 pm jennspiller: Weakness. Insecurity. Mistakes. RT @UF_Chat: Q3a: What qualities make a character MORE human than not? #UFchat
11:18 pm shadowflame1974: @Preternatural__ exactly #UFchat
11:18 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @J_GriffinB Warlock: w/ Julian Sands and Richard E. Grant #ufchat
11:18 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat A3a: Weakness, and inability to pull their head from their ass. #ufchat
11:18 pm kltworld: RT @Preternatural__: I think that the struggle is mostly to see that the paranormal doesn’t swallow the human aspect of the characters whole #UFchat
11:18 pm UF_Chat: @shadowflame1974 It’s the no extra powers that gets tricky – still tend to at least give MCs major kickassitude- just isn’t normal. #UFchat
11:18 pm shadowflame1974: @jennspiller things we as plain old humans can relate to #UFchat
11:19 pm UF_Chat: RT @Preternatural__: I think that the struggle is mostly to see that the paranormal doesn’t swallow the human aspect of the characters whole #UFchat
11:19 pm jennspiller: @shadowflame1974 Netflix streaming! #UFchat
11:19 pm UF_Chat: Q3b: What human qualities do you think are important to have for an MC to relate to the reader? #UFchat
11:19 pm leapetra: A human character uses their head a lot more than the other ones. #ufchat
11:20 pm shadowflame1974: @UF_Chat sure they could be kick ass, but w/o magic assistance or shape changing. I know Kick ass Humans! they ROCK #UFchat
11:20 pm J_GriffinB: @Ben_Aaronovitch A2 Thanks, I forgot actor. Great movie. He had some lore to counter the Warlock, but anyone could use it. #ufchat
11:20 pm jessrosenbooks: #UFchat (comment from lurkage) A paranormal char seems more human when s/he is in conflict w/para abilities. Doesn’t want them.
11:21 pm inkgypsy: #UFchat Thx! (Frankenstein related for chat people) RT @Preternatural__: @inkgypsy Found it finally, Haunted Summer: http://imdb.to/gL7jhz
11:21 pm shadowflame1974: @leapetra lol not always. Sometimes it is stupid mistakes by plain humans or others for that matter that save the day. #UFchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: Q4: Back to the lack of 100% human MCs. Why do you think most UF MCs are not, in fact, 100% human? #UFchat
11:21 pm sandrawickham: @jessrosenbooks Exellent point! Also, when they have “normal” flaws (insecurity, commitment issues etc) #ufchat
11:21 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: S3: the viability of human cjaracters depends, a bit, on the power level of the supernatural elements #ufchat
11:21 pm jennspiller: I agree RT @jessrosenbooks: #UFchat paranormal char seems more human when s/he is in conflict w/para abilities. Doesn’t want them.
11:22 pm inkgypsy: @Jess_Haines πŸ™‚ (PS We’re in the middle of #UFchat right now if you wanted to peek – no guest author today but still good urban fantasychat)
11:22 pm leapetra: @shadowflame1974 so plain old luck saves the day!!! #ufchat
11:22 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat A4: The perceived requirements of genre, for the most part. #ufchat
11:22 pm shadowflame1974: @leapetra on occasion πŸ˜€ #UFchat
11:22 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra aka Deus Ex Machina? #UFchat
11:23 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB Appreciate you throwing the ‘perceived’ in there. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:23 pm shadowflame1974: @J_GriffinB so do you think that a UF could have a plain human MC in a magic rich world? #UFchat
11:23 pm UF_Chat: Q5: What?s the attraction of reading (and writing) an MC who isn?t completely ?normal?? #UFchat
11:23 pm Jess_Haines: #UFchat Howdy, everyone! What’d I miss so far?
11:23 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: S4: the writer might just like writing non-humans #ufchat
11:24 pm shadowflame1974: Q5 you can go anywhere with it. Few boundaries. #UFchat
11:24 pm J_GriffinB: @shadowflame1974 Indeed. A pariah due to the absence of power. #ufchat
11:24 pm UF_Chat: Q6: What is ?normal? anyway as far as human main characters in UF goes? #UFchat
11:25 pm shadowflame1974: @J_GriffinB now that is an interesting concept. discrimination of those with no power maybe? #UFchat
11:25 pm sandrawickham: @UF_Chat Q5a: For the fun of it! (especially in writing it) LOL. It’s part of the fantasy, the escape. #ufchat
11:25 pm jennspiller: re: Q5 Limitless possibilities in the story #UFchat
11:25 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines Hi! (this is @inkgypsy with mod hat on) Seen how most UF MCs not 100%plain vanilla human – looking at why. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:25 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat A5: Again it’s about getting away from the halitosis and bills of everyday life. #ufchat
11:25 pm shadowflame1974: Q6 most of the time more than the normal amount of knowledge, weapon/military/police training, some sort of magic #UFchat
11:26 pm jennspiller: Isn’t that kind of like Frodo? He’s tiny, but he’s not magic, right? @shadowflame1974 @J_GriffinB #UFchat
11:26 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB You are SO asking for bots! LOL #UFchat
11:26 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Thank you! Hehe, wonder if I’ll be a bit biased considering the MC of my series is human. #UFchat
11:26 pm UF_Chat: S: Classic fantasy hero = chosen/predestined. Classic UF MC less so but is still prevalent, often being the 1 person standing… #UFchat
11:26 pm J_GriffinB: @shadowflame1974 Yes. Perhaps magic spreads a sickness that only the pariah can deal with. #ufchat
11:26 pm UF_Chat: S cont: ? b/w humankind & apocalypse of sorts. Even if MCs not hybrid often magically predestined & given a unique ability or two. #UFchat
11:26 pm shadowflame1974: @jennspiller yea but in a UF setting not an epic fantasy. #UFchat
11:27 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines Do chime in! Not predestined or has xtra abilities given/learned? (Your bk is on TBR pile very near top!) #UFchat
11:27 pm shadowflame1974: @Jess_Haines completely human? Let’s hear more #UFchat
11:27 pm jennspiller: @shadowflame1974 I’m now racking my brain for a UF character that fits the bill. #UFchat
11:27 pm Jess_Haines: Q6: I think it depends on the series. Harry Dresden is basically human because he has so many problems and such. He still (cont) #UFchat
11:27 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines I do love you set your series around an actual disaster & didn’t flinch from it. Lots of human quandries in there. #UFchat
11:28 pm jennspiller: @Jess_Haines But, Dresden seems to get more and more magical as time goes on. #UFchat
11:28 pm Jess_Haines: has to pay rent, get his car fixed, and eat/sleep like the rest of us. He just happens to have extra powers to help him. #UFchat
11:28 pm J_GriffinB: @jennspiller But he’s not human. Indeed, their resistance to the corruption of magic is a reason Gandalf has for using Halflings #ufchat
11:28 pm UF_Chat: Let me do the statements again before Q 7. #UFchat
11:28 pm UF_Chat: S: Classic fantasy hero = chosen/predestined. Classic UF MC less so but is still prevalent, often being the 1 person standing… #UFchat
11:28 pm Jess_Haines: @jennspiller True, particularly after CHANGES. But he’s basically human in the early books. #UFchat
11:28 pm jennspiller: @Jess_Haines One of the things I like about Dresden is that the extra powers don’t help him with the real life stuff. #UFchat
11:29 pm UF_Chat: S cont: ? b/w humankind & apocalypse of sorts. Even if MCs not hybrid often magically predestined & given a unique ability or two. #UFchat
11:29 pm UF_Chat: Q7: Why is there a tendency to have the MC be ?special? ? esp when readers say they like MCs to be human like they are? #UFchat
11:29 pm shadowflame1974: @jennspiller extra powers aren’t a fix for everything. More often more of a complication #UFchat
11:30 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Thank you! Shiarra is def. not predestined, extra powers, etc. Plain, ol’, vanilla human. She is actually terrified(cont) #UFchat
11:30 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines Liked that he started very human too – even wizarding aspects were a real/obvious struggle-not natural. Kinda miss it. #UFchat
11:30 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat A7 ‘Cause everyone wants to think they too are special. #ufchat
11:30 pm jennspiller: @J_GriffinB Thanks for clarification. It’s sacriledge, I know, but I haven’t read LOTR. Too many reasons to go into here. #ufchat
11:30 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat of all things supernatural (aka, “Others” in my ‘verse). #UFchat
11:30 pm leapetra: Q7 The “outsider” image. Everyone feels like they are an outsider, The non human MC is an outsider too #ufchat
11:30 pm starshinedown: Following the discussion in #UFchat. It’s interesting stuff. If you read, write, or want to write urban fantasy, come read!
11:30 pm shadowflame1974: Q7 much harder for writer to even out the field between human and monsters when all the human has to fight with is a stick. #UFchat
11:31 pm jennspiller: RT @starshinedown: Following the discussion in #UFchat. It’s interesting stuff. If you read, write, or want to write urban fantasy, come on!
11:31 pm Jess_Haines: @jennspiller Exactly, he’s still got problems–just like the rest of us. #UFchat
11:31 pm UF_Chat: RT @starshinedown: Following the discussion in #UFchat. It’s interesting stuff. If you read, write, or want to write urban fantasy, come read!
11:31 pm inkgypsy: RT @starshinedown: Following the discussion in #UFchat. It’s interesting stuff. If you read, write, or want to write urban fantasy, come read!
11:31 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Yeah, but like anyone else, he’s grown over time. I think that’s what makes him so great to read. #UFchat
11:32 pm UF_Chat: Q8: What are the advantages ? story wise – of writing an MC with extra abilities? #UFchat
11:32 pm Jess_Haines: RT @starshinedown: Following the discussion in #UFchat. It’s interesting stuff. If you read, write, or want to write urban fantasy, come read!
11:32 pm shadowflame1974: writer has to find creative ways to keep plain human alive in a fight. Easy way is to give them special powers #UFchat
11:32 pm UF_Chat: Q8a: What are the disadvantages ? story wise – of writing an ?enhanced? MC? #UFchat
11:32 pm JLCoburn: A7 What @shadowflame1974 plus, a bit of fantasy writers being more than they are I think #ufchat
11:32 pm Jess_Haines: @shadowflame1974 Tell me about it. *g* #UFchat
11:32 pm J_GriffinB: @shadowflame1974 I go back to Warlock. Witch hunter uses knowledge of witchery to counter the magic, not quite magic-use for him. #ufchat
11:33 pm JLCoburn: A8 They’re less squishy and less prone to getting hurt so you can amp up the excitement and it still be believable. #ufchat
11:33 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Q7: Disadvantage is a risk of alienating your readers due to too much Sue-ishness. #UFchat
11:33 pm Jess_Haines: D’oh, meant Q8. #UFchat
11:33 pm UF_Chat: Q9: Love interests of the MC are often more than human too. Why do UF MCs tend to have more-than-human partners/lovers? #UFchat
11:33 pm leapetra: Q8a that special ability, could end up being a crutch. #ufchat
11:34 pm Jess_Haines: Or did I mean 7? Dang it, need more coffee. #UFchat
11:34 pm J_GriffinB: A8: An in-built mystery aspect to them? #ufchat
11:34 pm shadowflame1974: disadvantage is also putting limits on what your MC can do. can’t give them god powers. Much too easy and unbelievable #UFchat
11:34 pm JLCoburn: A8a Well, you have to now account for those abilities, make them consistent. If its a major focus inconsistencies will be amplified. #ufchat
11:34 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat A9: Again, to resist the squish factor posed by super enemies handily. #ufchat
11:35 pm jennspiller: @shadowflame1974 True. No god powers. Bigger the power, the bigger the handicap for the power needs to be. #UFchat
11:35 pm inkgypsy: @shadowflame1974 Recently read fun book that had to stop as MC was told was turning into a God. I lost interest completely. #UFchat
11:35 pm UF_Chat: Q9a: The UF MC lovers are often also more-than-average supernaturals too. (eg alphas, leaders) Why is that? #UFchat
11:35 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: S: imight be interesting to distinguish between those who have ‘professional’ powers (dresden et al) and… #ufchat
11:35 pm J_GriffinB: @jennspiller Well you can give them god-like powers, if the god isn’t a omnipotent one. A war god can’t bring rain for the crops. #ufchat
11:36 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: S (cont) …people whos very existance is defined by their powers. #ufchat
11:36 pm jennspiller: @inkgypsy Only way I could see “turning into a god” as working would be if it required HUGE sacrifice, and no choice. #UFchat
11:36 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB LOL You’re very visceral. Perfect for a UF writer. πŸ˜‰ I like seeing the senses get used. #UFchat
11:36 pm sandrawickham: @J_GriffinB LOL. If he’s not superhuman she’s going to squish him? (or he, her) I know what you mean, it’s just funneh! πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
11:36 pm Jess_Haines: @jennspiller @shadowflame1974 Can also mean a lack of interest from readers due to no believable opponents. #UFchat
11:36 pm shadowflame1974: @jennspiller *nods* #UFchat
11:37 pm leapetra: Gods can be fun. if you do them right #ufchat
11:37 pm UF_Chat: @jennspiller Yes – but then they come back which kind of says it wasn’t such a big deal after all (this is the UF book BTW) #UFchat
11:37 pm jennspiller: @leapetra If the whole world is gods, then I could go there. #ufchat
11:37 pm hannahnpbowman: Popping in to #ufchat for a minute: re Q8, superhuman abilities have to be balanced with unusual weaknesses, but that combo can be cool.
11:37 pm Jess_Haines: @leapetra I prefer them as antagonists over protags. #UFchat
11:37 pm JLCoburn: A9a Again I think its mostly writer influenced. What super MC would want a norm love. Look how many women Batman has gone through. #ufchat
11:37 pm shadowflame1974: and hey, the SO has to be able to handle life with an other MC. It’s not easy being special lol #UFchat
11:37 pm Jess_Haines: @shadowflame1974 LOL, yeah! #UFchat
11:38 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra Think the Greeks/Romans had the right idea – fallible – like superhumans w equal allies/foes to even playing field. #UFchat
11:38 pm leapetra: Zeus chased women, Loki was a thorn in Odin’s side, there are so much you can do with gods #ufchat
11:38 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat And yet, I don’t write UF. #ufchat
11:38 pm UF_Chat: Q10: Man vs supernatural is one of the classic conflicts. When MC more-than-human what?s human element that?s important for this? #UFchat
11:38 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat And that was what I was getting at with the War god unable to make it rain… unless it’s blood. #ufchat
11:39 pm shadowflame1974: @J_GriffinB rubs hands together* oh but I know wheels are turning #UFchat
11:39 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Q10: I think the MC has to have human fallibility in terms of personality or it just doesn’t work. #UFchat
11:39 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB Nice! Gods with limits. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:39 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB Maybe you should (write UF) πŸ˜‰ I’d read it. #UFchat
11:39 pm GeneDoucette: really really brief drop-in #ufchat
11:40 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines Personality – you mean decision making? Morals? ….? #UFchat
11:40 pm shadowflame1974: @GeneDoucette *waves* #UFchat
11:40 pm J_GriffinB: @Jess_Haines Yep. Pull thy head from thy ass, or the love of your life is going to fly away (literally)! #ufchat
11:40 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines (Agree – just trying to keep everyone’s head-wheels turning) #UFchat
11:40 pm GeneDoucette: Just to say I have a nonmagical MC with “magical” creatures he has to outlast. (he’s immortal) #ufchat
11:40 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette Hi! #UFchat
11:40 pm GeneDoucette: I simplified things. The world they inhabit has no magic. #ufchat
11:41 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette Immortal is magical though… just sayin’ #UFchat
11:41 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat They can’t be “perfect” in every way. Morally or otherwise, they make mistakes or have to live in the “real” world (cont) #UFchat
11:41 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette Well immortal is not 100% human anyway. #UFchat
11:41 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat Thanks but I’m happy in my Policeprocedural/mystery/militarySF non-genre. The agent just submitted my book this last week. #ufchat
11:41 pm leapetra: in a story still buried on my hard drive. An atheist gets god like powers. Still won’t accept there are gods #ufchat
11:41 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat and deal with “real” problems, e.g., like what I mentioned about Dresden earlier. #UFchat
11:41 pm JLCoburn: Q10 A super MC runs the risk of getting disconnected from the norms. Prime example taken to an extreme would be Dr Manhattan #ufchat
11:41 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat No. He’s not. Immortal has no magic in it. the MC is not magic #ufchat
11:41 pm shadowflame1974: morals is what is going to complicate the MCs life. the ability to create and carry out a plan will make them succeed. #UFchat
11:41 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat and he is defined as completely human #ufchat
11:42 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Look at Rachel Morgan from the Hollows series. She is constantly dealing with the personality conflicts between (cont) #UFchat
11:42 pm J_GriffinB: @JLCoburn Thought of the exact same character. #ufchat
11:42 pm GeneDoucette: I just wanted to say sometimes redefining the universe for the char is the easiest solution. instead of giving the MC powers, #ufchat
11:42 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @J_GriffinB Good luck #ufchat
11:42 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines Yes! Perfect heroes = yawn-worthy. But some UF I’ve read comes close. Takes more than sassy mouth to be imperfect. #UFchat
11:42 pm GeneDoucette: give the “magical” creatures less power. #ufchat
11:43 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat herself, Ivy, and Jenks. They are all powerful beings in their own right, but they still have things to worry about (cont) #UFchat
11:43 pm leapetra: in a story still buried on my hard drive. An atheist gets god like powers. Still won’t accept there are gods #ufchat
11:43 pm jennspiller: @Jess_Haines @UF_Chat I adore Rachel Morgan. And Ivy, and Jenks. They are great examples of awesome sidekicks. #UFchat
11:43 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette Sorry – should have said not human instead of magic. Humans are not immortal – gives him options humans don’t have. #UFchat
11:43 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat like Ivy’s cravings for Rachel’s blood, Jenks ‘s wife growing old/dying, Rachel dealing with the stigma of her (cont) #UFchat
11:43 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat Sassy mouth just makes you want to slap them. Sassy mouth when it’s called for is fun, though. #ufchat
11:43 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat demon mark, etc. OK, I think I’m finally done. πŸ˜€ #UFchat
11:44 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines Particularly like Jenks! #UFchat
11:44 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @leapetra Well of course he doesn’t – now he knows for sure #ufchat
11:44 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat that’s a fair point, yes. But his survival hinges more on his knowledge. #ufchat
11:44 pm JLCoburn: .@J_GriffinB Superman shows if off a bit too in his ‘must protect everyone’ moments, but he was raised while developing his powers #ufchat
11:44 pm GeneDoucette: OK gotta run. Out to the mall. Would rather stay… #ufchat
11:44 pm Jess_Haines: @jennspiller Totally! πŸ˜€ #UFchat
11:44 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB Yes – gets boring when is only language they speak but used well = super-fun! #UFchat
11:44 pm J_GriffinB: @GeneDoucette A point I was trying to get at with references to Warlock and the witch hunter. #ufchat
11:44 pm leapetra: @Ben_Aaronovitch hehe Yup #ufchat
11:44 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette *waves* Thanks for popping in! #UFchat
11:45 pm UF_Chat: S: UF is closely related to horror in many aspects particularly re ?human survives encounter w monster? plot. #UFchat
11:45 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat I’m a huge fan of Big Al. *g* #UFchat
11:45 pm JLCoburn: .@J_GriffinB so it’s not as pronounced. Dr M though was suddenly given godlike power and showed what it could do to human emotions. #ufchat
11:45 pm UF_Chat: Q11: There are ways in which the UF MC departs from the horror MC though. What are they? #UFchat
11:45 pm curlyrbr: Hi, #ufchat What’s up today?
11:45 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat bye…! And I would LOVE to talk abt this more, but… well. Buy Immortal sometime. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:45 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat Language also needs to be a function of story-If the character is getting verbally abused & gives the antag a slap-down. #ufchat
11:45 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat A11: ass kicking! #UFchat
11:46 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines He’s gotten interesting! Demons usually bore me but he has dimension (punny I know) #UFchat
11:46 pm Jess_Haines: @J_GriffinB Could you explain more? Give an example? #UFchat
11:46 pm J_GriffinB: It’s all good. #ufchat
11:46 pm UF_Chat: @curlyrbr Hiya! Talking about human factor of MCs in UF – MCs usually more than human but why? #UFchat
11:46 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat LOL, yeah. I know exactly what you mean. Cardboard bad guys = no fun. #UFchat
11:47 pm JLCoburn: A11 UF MC is allowed a sense of wonder at what he discovers, opposed to Horror for the other guy. #ufchat
11:47 pm UF_Chat: @Ben_Aaronovitch Agreed – it aggressively turns tables on monsters (mostly) – not just running/scrabbling to survive. #UFchat
11:47 pm J_GriffinB: @Jess_Haines A character that hasn’t a rep for verbal repartee and then trucks out a zinger in response to a situation can be great. #ufchat
11:47 pm JLCoburn: A11 Prime example of mentality differences…Sherlock Holmes vs Chuthlu. A lot of them are written in the same historical timespan #ufchat
11:48 pm shadowflame1974: @JLCoburn I don’t know about that. some of the things my MC sees leaves nasty taste in her mouth #UFchat
11:48 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @JLCoburn sense of wonder – good point #ufchat
11:48 pm J_GriffinB: I keep thinking of the Turkish giant in Princess Bride. #ufchat
11:48 pm UF_Chat: @JLCoburn Stop and smell the slimebag? πŸ˜‰ Agreed – has options for other aspects other than fear being main motivation. #UFchat
11:48 pm Jess_Haines: @J_GriffinB Oh! Yeah, I like those! #UFchat
11:48 pm UF_Chat: Q11a: Re answers to Q11, is this one of the keys to ?what makes UF ?UF? as opposed to horror or is it more other genre-related? #UFchat
11:48 pm sandrawickham: @UF_Chat A11: Horror is about survival, UF usually is about the mystery, the character, as well as surviving #ufchat
11:48 pm JLCoburn: A11 but how the MCs react to the world around them is so vastly different. #ufchat
11:48 pm jennspiller: @J_GriffinB @Jess_Haines I love reversals in stories. Can be tough to make work, but when they do, they rock. #ufchat
11:49 pm UF_Chat: @jennspiller Agreed! Hard to surprise people & make believable but when works is AWESOME. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:49 pm Jess_Haines: @jennspiller @J_GriffinB Mmm, tasty, tasty literary surprises… *g* #UFchat
11:49 pm JLCoburn: @shadowflame1974 True, but a bad taste is vastly different from the abject horror the MC in a horror story would feel. #ufchat
11:49 pm J_GriffinB: and IΓ±igo Montya’s you keep saying that- I do not think it means what you think it means. #ufchat
11:49 pm Preternatural__: @sandrawickham I agree completely besides the supernatural aspect mystery is one of the key aspects in UF #UFchat
11:50 pm UF_Chat: RT @sandrawickham: @UF_Chat A11: Horror is about survival, UF usually is about the mystery, the character, as well as surviving #ufchat
11:50 pm jennspiller: @Jess_Haines @UF_Chat I think Rachel has to end up with Al, personally. #UFchat
11:50 pm UF_Chat: Q12: When characters we relate to in ‘other among us? stories are in fact ?other? themselves, what does that imply (if anything)? #UFchat
11:50 pm JLCoburn: @J_GriffinB Inconceivable! #ufchat
11:50 pm Jess_Haines: @jennspiller I’m so down with that. #UFchat
11:51 pm jennspiller: @Jess_Haines (But only because Kim has said no to Ivy). #UFchat
11:51 pm Jess_Haines: @jennspiller Heh. I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop and Trent to get his comeuppance. #UFchat
11:51 pm UF_Chat: @jennspiller That would be interesting. Still feels like set-up is for her to end up with Trent (is that his name? Uber-alpha-Elf?) #UFchat
11:51 pm JLCoburn: A12 Good work bringing the character to life for one. #ufchat
11:52 pm UF_Chat: S: Some argue that UF puts humans ? who have no real predators in our world ? in a position of prey again. #UFchat
11:52 pm UF_Chat: Q13: Is this the reason human MCs are often given ?an edge? ? made more than human themselves? #UFchat
11:52 pm jennspiller: @UF_Chat Yes, I think Trent is the set-up. Since the beginning. Childhood friends and all. But, would be cool if Al falls for Rachel #UFchat
11:52 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Heck yeah. That’s the tastiest kind of UF! #UFchat
11:52 pm jennspiller: @UF_Chat And then Al might have to do something seriously redeeming, knowing he can’t have her. See? Reversal. #UFchat
11:52 pm UF_Chat: Q13a: UF humans rarely plain vanilla?more badass mortals (military traind, xlnt fighters etc). Are plain vanillas not UF-compatible? #UFchat
11:53 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: Bed time for me guys – enjoyed discussion – #ufchat
11:53 pm Jess_Haines: @jennspiller @UF_Chat I think it would be fab if Al did something to redeem himself and ended up with Rachel. #UFchat
11:53 pm JLCoburn: Humans have predators, it’s just most people don’t think of themselves as those predators. #ufchat
11:53 pm shadowflame1974: @Ben_Aaronovitch night! #UFchat
11:53 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Q13a: I’d like to think they are. πŸ˜› #UFchat
11:53 pm sandrawickham: @Jess_Haines Me too. #ufchat
11:54 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines Like Sookie & Bill – no matter the rest still feels like it’s going to be Bill not Eric, mainly b/c of how Bill written #UFchat
11:54 pm jennspiller: Q13 I think anything is possible in the hands of the skilled author #ufchat
11:54 pm UF_Chat: @Ben_Aaronovitch Nighty-night – don’t let the monsters under the bed bite. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
11:54 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat A13a Like I said, they tend to be victims-in-waiting in the worst of fantasy, but they can be quite a bit more. #ufchat
11:54 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Right, exactly. #UFchat
11:54 pm jennspiller: @UF_Chat @Jess_Haines I hope not. I’d love to see Bill crushed under something. And then watch the sun come up. #UFchat
11:55 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Not even taking into account my MC is human, there are books out there with human MCs that are great. Sookie is def. one. #UFchat
11:55 pm UF_Chat: @jennspiller Think this is where craft VERY important in UF – to not subconsciously write preferences in – make outcome true mystery #UFchat
11:55 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines Sookie not human tho – telepathy in beginning was almost human but not quite then heritage = def not human. 😦 #UFchat
11:56 pm UF_Chat: Q13b: What does this do to the hierarchy of ?the food chain? & where does it put the REAL 100% humans in a UF story? #UFchat
11:56 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Oh, hell. Haven’t read very far into the series. Does it turn out she’s not human after all? #UFchat
11:56 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines Hehe – looking at next questions – they’re relating to Sookie.. LOL #UFchat
11:56 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat Fearless writing like George RR Martin’s Game of Thrones. Reads like an incredible history. Death/maiming happens, dealwit #ufchat
11:56 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat LOL, should I run away to avoid spoilers? #UFchat
11:56 pm shadowflame1974: one of these nights when I am NOT writing going to have to sign up for nexflix and do some streaming #UFchat
11:57 pm UF_Chat: @Jess_Haines Not massive spoiler so yes, she’s not all human. #UFchat
11:57 pm Jess_Haines: @J_GriffinB YES. God I love George RR. #UFchat
11:57 pm Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat D’OH. Kinda kills my argument. Gimme a minute to think of another one. πŸ˜€ #UFchat
11:57 pm UF_Chat: S: More than 1 UF author cites MC Sookie being an inspiration because of her ?human-woman-ness?. #UFchat
11:57 pm UF_Chat: Q14: Sookie is different (at start of series) due to telepathy so what are the human elements so many people are drawn to? #UFchat
11:57 pm UF_Chat: Q14a: Are there other popular MCs like Sookie in this way? Why/why not? #UFchat
11:58 pm Preternatural__: S14a Plain vanillia humans often become ensign redshirts if they hang out with the paranormals for too long… #UFchat
11:58 pm UF_Chat: Q14b: What about male MCs? Are there any that represent human in a way Sookie did at the start? #UFchat
11:58 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat A14a Lonely hot girl misunderstood by her small town neighbors, what’s not to like? #ufchat
11:58 pm jennspiller: @Preternatural__ LOL, true. Poor redshirt humans. #UFchat
11:58 pm UF_Chat: Got a few questions to go – people want to hang around? (We have a guest author next week so can’t expand for Pt 2) #UFchat
11:58 pm J_GriffinB: @Preternatural__ Yep. #ufchat
11:58 pm Jess_Haines: LOL, redshirt humans? That’s a good way of putting it… #UFchat
11:59 pm JLCoburn: @Preternatural__ Or they’re turned into paranormals in the case of almost everything involving vampires and werewolves. #ufchat
11:59 pm UF_Chat: @jennspiller Red shirt has COMPLETELY entered the vernacular! (love it) #UFchat
11:59 pm Jess_Haines: @JLCoburn Ala Anita Blake? πŸ˜› #UFchat
11:59 pm J_GriffinB: @Jess_Haines John Ringo, uses the term a lot. Wrote Princess of Wands. Very different UF, very different for Ringo. #ufchat
December 5, 2010
Jess_Haines: @J_GriffinB I’ll have to pick that one up, thanks for the rec! #UFchat
UF_Chat: S: Monsters of myth had to (for most part) become more human to carry character arcs, storylines & believable love interests in UF. #UFchat
JLCoburn: @Jess_Haines Yep…well at least before it became erotica with a splash of UF. #ufchat
UF_Chat: Q15: How did werewolves change to accommodate the UF genre? What humanizes them so readers sympathize? #UFchat
UF_Chat: Q15a: How about vampires? How do they differ ?now? to the traditional monster they were? What makes them relatable? #UFchat
J_GriffinB: @Jess_Haines I know him. My wife keeps bugging me to bug him about writing the sequel. #ufchat
UF_Chat: Q15b: Zombies ? same question ? how are they more human/relatable now than in myth/legend? #UFchat
12:01 am UF_Chat: Q15c: How about demons ? the hottest MC/love interest right now? What?s changed about demons from legends? #UFchat
12:01 am UF_Chat: Q15d: The Fae/fairies are trickier. In many ways are still most alien of all creatures. How do we sympathize with these creatures? #UFchat
12:01 am Jess_Haines: I liked how @mark_henry turned his human MC into something unusual. Anyone else read his stuff? #UFchat
12:01 am leapetra: Q15a too many writers are making vampires “nice” that has to stop! #ufchat
12:01 am J_GriffinB: Gotta go hang lights before dark. See you all next week, if I am free. #ufchat
12:01 am JLCoburn: Welp…gotta get the kids up and get ready for a parade. #ufchat
12:02 am Jess_Haines: @J_GriffinB You should! πŸ™‚ Always good to have more good books in the genre. #UFchat
12:02 am leapetra: Q15 Werewolves could have the easiest time adapting to human life #ufchat
12:02 am UF_Chat: @leapetra Agreed – emo-monsters with no teeth = soapy. NOT kickass-sexy. #UFchat
12:02 am shadowflame1974: Weres had to open up to their human side. Vamps had to be more than just bloodsuckers #UFchat
12:02 am jennspiller: @leapetra True. Nice Vamps make no sense. Part of the allure is the danger. #ufchat
12:02 am UF_Chat: S: Saw twitter question asking how to make troll-like inhuman creature be a believable love interest/have sex sc readers will like. #UFchat
12:02 am Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Ick, just read one like this recently. HATE that. #UFchat
12:03 am leapetra: @UF_Chat They are not even vampires anymore. Vampires = fear. Fear of death, sex, etc #ufchat
12:03 am UF_Chat: Q15e: If troll-like creature can?t transform/glamour someone is it possible to bring readers on board with a human/troll mating? #UFchat
12:03 am sandrawickham: @Jess_Haines Haven’t read Mark’s yet, but really want to. Big fan of his just from twitter, goodreads, Bitten By Books, etc.#ufchat
12:03 am shadowflame1974: @UF_Chat anything is possible πŸ˜€ #UFchat
12:03 am UF_Chat: S: The ultimate story asking what is a monster and what does it mean to be human is Mary Shelley?s Frankenstein. #UFchat
12:03 am Jess_Haines: @sandrawickham You should! Read the first two books, they were hysterical (and totally politically incorrect). #UFchat
12:03 am jennspiller: @UF_Chat Well, Laurel K has Mercy have sex with the tentacle guy. People kept reading. #UFchat
12:04 am UF_Chat: S cont: BTW Frankenstein holds many parallels with Blade Runner ? movie many UF books compared to. (check Google for essays) #UFchat
12:04 am leapetra: Q15e depends on the troll, in myths some of them had no trouble taking human wives or husbands #ufchat
12:04 am UF_Chat: Q16: If Frankenstein were transplanted into our times, would it ?fit? in UF genre? Why? #UFchat
12:04 am Delphinios1: RT @leapetra: Q15 Werewolves could have the easiest time adapting to human life #ufchat
12:04 am J_GriffinB: Buhbye #ufchat
12:04 am UF_Chat: @jennspiller I didn’t get that far… #UFchat
12:05 am shadowflame1974: @J_GriffinB bye #UFchat
12:05 am UF_Chat: (Note: Dean Koontz has a multi vol series based on Frankenstein) – 2 questions left! #UFchat
12:05 am UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB Bye – thanks for hanging out so long! #UFchat
12:05 am UF_Chat: Q17: In the phrase ?it made him seem extremely human? (context up to you) ? what does the word ?human? imply? #UFchat
12:06 am jennspiller: @UF_Chat Q16: Frankenstein as uber-scientist whose creation turns on him. More like sci-fi in modern times. #UFchat
12:06 am UF_Chat: @jennspiller Design your own… baby-monster? πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
12:06 am Jess_Haines: @UF_Chat Q17: That they have said something or performed some action that makes them sympathetic to humanity or “normal” somehow. #UFchat
12:07 am jennspiller: @UF_Chat Really? Koontz? I forgot he existed. It has been forever since I read him. Must look him back up. #UFchat
12:07 am shadowflame1974: @jennspiller what if it were science trying to recreate a monster and well the real monsters have to come out and fight it #UFchat
12:07 am Jess_Haines: @jennspiller @UF_Chat I haven’t read much Koontz for a while either. Be curious if the new stuff is any good. #UFchat
12:07 am UF_Chat: To me ‘human’ (in that sentence) implies – fragile, mortal, vulnerable, lovable, emotive, fallible… #UFchat
12:08 am UF_Chat: FINAL BIG Q: What DOES it mean to be human? And how does that impact creating & reading characters in UF? #UFchat
12:08 am DawnEmbers: @UF_Chat that’s an excellent question. #UFchat
12:08 am leapetra: BIG Q: If I knew the answer. I wouldn’t have to write. #ufchat
12:09 am UF_chat2: @Jess_Haines I liked the 1st two in the series but long time between so lost momentum – have to re-read before finishing series now. #UFchat
12:09 am shadowflame1974: human= something like the rest of use. emotions, physical appearance, social responses, no matter if they are special or not #UFchat
12:09 am yobyh: RT @leapetra: BIG Q: If I knew the answer. I wouldn’t have to write. #ufchat
12:09 am UF_chat2: @DawnEmbers Thanks – was whole reason for chat topic really. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
12:10 am UF_chat2: @leaptra Also fabulous answer! Agreed – that’s one of the big reasons we’re all writing. #UFchat
12:10 am jennspiller: We like the idea of human. Hence the Kirk line: “Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most… human.” #ufchat
12:11 am UF_chat2: That?s a wrap for #UFchat today! We have a GUEST AUTHOR with us for a Q&A next week! #UFchat
12:11 am Jess_Haines: @UF_chat Wow, having a hard time pondering that last question. That’s a biggie. Encompasses so much… #UFchat
12:11 am jennspiller: We like what we relate to. “Inhuman” is almost always an insult #ufchat
12:11 am UF_chat2: Please RT: UF author Merrie Destefano will be joining us in #UFchat on Dec 11 to discuss her book Afterlife & more!
12:11 am shadowflame1974: RT @UF_chat2: Please RT: UF author Merrie Destefano will be joining us in #UFchat on Dec 11 to discuss her book Afterlife & more! #UFchat
12:11 am Jess_Haines: RT @UF_chat2: Please RT: UF author Merrie Destefano will be joining us in #UFchat on Dec 11 to discuss her book Afterlife & more!
12:11 am UF_chat2: Got a topic you want to chat about? Let me know! (@inkgypsy) I?ll add it to the list & maybe even bump up the chat-date for it. #UFchat
12:11 am UF_chat2: Some additional resources on being human in a sea of supernaturals in UF – next: #UFchat
12:12 am UF_chat2: Today?s primer for #UFchat early birds was: Jane True: Nobody?s Straight Man http://bit.ly/d4DpfH #UFchat
12:12 am sandrawickham: @UF_Chat Big Q: I’ll take a stab-conflicting emotions, strong relationships (good/bad), extremes of emotions, self-doubt (?) LOL! #ufchat
12:12 am UF_chat2: Plot patterns and the Urban Fantasy Genre http://bit.ly/enRxeo #UFchat
12:12 am miranda00writes: RT @UF_chat2: Please RT: UF author Merrie Destefano will be joining us in #UFchat on Dec 11 to discuss her book Afterlife & more!
12:12 am UF_chat2: Urban Fantasy: It?s All the Same! (by Marci Sischo) http://bit.ly/e2nYQ6 #UFchat
12:12 am UF_chat2: A Guide to Vampire Fiction with Real Bite http://bit.ly/hw5Eat #UFchat
12:12 am Wulfie_: RT @shadowflame1974: RT @UF_chat2: Please RT: UF author Merrie Destefano will be joining us in #UFchat on Dec 11 to discuss her book Afterlife & more! #UFchat
12:12 am UF_chat2: The Allure of Urban Fantasy (long & interesting ? discusses monster forms heroines get involved with) http://bit.ly/fYn6sG #UFchat
12:12 am sandrawickham: @jennspiller Ooooh. Nice…quotes the captain. LOL #ufchat
12:13 am UF_chat2: What Does It Mean To Be Human? Personal/Moral values ? 22 articles http://bit.ly/gOGtLx #UFchat
12:13 am UF_chat2: What Does It Mean To Be A Monster? (serious questions & answers on Yahoo) http://yhoo.it/fHvNRt #UFchat
12:13 am UF_chat2: #UFchat transcript available on the #UFchat blog in 48hrs-ish, allowing for late comments. Just use the hashtag.
12:13 am Jess_Haines: I think being human means having emotion, weakness, vulnerability, etc. There is no such thing as perfection for (cont) πŸ˜€ #UFchat
12:14 am Jess_Haines: humanity (unless we’re talking Ryan Reynolds.) πŸ˜€ #UFchat
12:15 am UF_chat2: @Jess_Haines LOL! LOve it. #UFchat
12:15 am UF_chat2: Happy silly season! Remember all strange-ers you meet out there are human too ?just like you! (scary, huh?) @UF_Chat lights out. #UFchat
12:15 am ganymeder: OMG that is so true. Hello people, theyre MONSTERS! >RT @leapetra Q15a too many writers are making vampires “nice” that has to stop! #ufchat
12:16 am jennspiller: @sandrawickham LOl. Not a trekkie per se, but my dog’s name *is* Data. All my dogs have thought they were human. #ufchat
12:16 am UF_chat2: @Jess_Haines Thx for coming & participating! Was great to have your input. You can grill @MerrieDestefano next wk if you like. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
12:17 am inkgypsy: @Jess_Haines In case you’re wondering #UFchat is on almost every Sat. πŸ™‚ (breaking for Xmas/New Yrs but otherwise usually happening)
12:17 am Jess_Haines: @UF_chat2 Anytime! Thanks for inviting me! over πŸ™‚ #UFchat
12:18 am shadowflame1974: Thanks for chatting with us today everyone! Great conversation. #UFchat
12:19 am sandrawickham: @shadowflame1974 Thanks, I’m glad you directed me over to #ufchat -I’ll be back!! πŸ™‚
12:19 am UF_chat2: Awesome chat today everyone! Thanks for hanging out a little longer – next week we have Merrie Destefano as our guest UF author! #UFchat
12:19 am inkgypsy: Awesome chat today everyone! Thanks for hanging out a little longer – next week we have Merrie Destefano as our guest UF author! #UFchat
12:20 am jennspiller: Great chat. I will definitely be checking in again after the new year. (Traveling next week). #ufchat
12:21 am inkgypsy: @Jess_Haines UFchat blog: http://bit.ly/cP9ghr Easy run down of previous topics w links here: http://bit.ly/enKFtP πŸ™‚ #UFchat
12:21 am Wulfie_: #UFchat Was an interesting discussion. Thanks.
12:21 am Jess_Haines: Yeah, this was great fun, guys! Nice chatting with you all! #UFchat
12:22 am sandrawickham: Had a great time over at #UFchat and now it’s time to get some serious editing done on my #20spec story! (thanks again @inkgypsy )
12:23 am inkgypsy: @Wulfie_ Thanks for lurking. πŸ˜‰ (We love lurkers too – always feel free to wave hi tho) πŸ™‚ #UFchat
12:23 am inkgypsy: @sandrawickham You’re very welcome! Hope to see you in the chat again. #UFchat
12:26 am soniawrite: I guess I am late huh? #UFchat
12:35 am inkgypsy: Amanda Feral – our fave glam zombie – has an erotica gift for us for ‘Kinkmas!’ LOL #UFchat RT @mark_henry http://bit.ly/aVVE5Y
12:36 am inkgypsy: @soniawrite Sorry sweetie – we just finished up! But lots to read in transcript! Busy fun chat today. πŸ™‚ (& guest author next week!) #UFchat
7:22 am AnassaRh: Excellent post on writing superpowers (comics, UF, etc.)! http://bit.ly/hR2yKU #ufchat (Dunno if related to today’s topic or not, but cool.)
8:55 am AnassaRh: A2: Is Alexia from the Parasol Protectorate considered human? She’s mortal and all, but no soul? #ufchat
8:57 am AnassaRh: A2: For the first 3? 4? books of the Blood series, the MC is human. Has a vamp to do the superpower stuff for her. #ufchat
8:59 am AnassaRh: A3: I think in UF ‘human’ means “feels like a human”. Sympathetic chars, chars trying to be human, chars who were raised human, etc. #ufchat
9:01 am AnassaRh: It’s not so much a genetic thing as a mental thing. Also, a lot of UF follows MC Discovers World of X pattern. #ufchat
9:02 am AnassaRh: Where X can mean “the whole magical underground” or “vamp culture” or “demon summoning ritual” or whatever. Stories about discovery. #ufchat
9:02 am AnassaRh: RT @Preternatural__: I think that the struggle is mostly to see that the paranormal doesn’t swallow the human aspect of the characters whole #UFchat
9:10 am AnassaRh: A3a: Uncertainty, compassion, flaws and quirks, ability to make mistakes. #ufchat
9:12 am AnassaRh: Agreed. RT @jessrosenbooks: #UFchat A paranormal char seems more human when s/he is in conflict w/para abilities. Doesn’t want them.
9:13 am AnassaRh: Also when they’re trying to save humans, or are going up against huge odds. A lot’s in the voice too, I think. #ufchat
9:17 am AnassaRh: A4: Coolness factor. Writer trying to even the odds a little. Making the world more believable to reader, or accessible to MC. #ufchat
9:18 am AnassaRh: Expanding on the accessibility: For plot to work, MC may need knowledge of magic prior to page one, so they get a magic background. #ufchat
9:19 am AnassaRh: A5: Again, coolness factor. Also wish fulfillment. If only I had stamina, that sixth sense, that ability to leap small buildings? #ufchat
9:22 am AnassaRh: A5 And yes, there are also fewer boundaries and more possibilities for stories with a “special” MC. More room to play, and to escape.#ufchat
9:26 am AnassaRh: A6: MCs, human or not, tend to be kickass, action before thinking types, who are always broke and love snark. #ufchat
9:26 am AnassaRh: They either know what they’re doing (or think they do), or muddle their way through the plot. #ufchat
9:27 am AnassaRh: And @shadowflame brought up a good point. Normal = law enforcement to some degree. #ufchat
9:32 am AnassaRh: A7: Again, there’s an element of wish fulfillment and escapism in that tendency, but we’re likely drawing on the trad. model too. #ufchat
9:34 am AnassaRh: And humans have to be pretty smart and strong to nearly die during 10 subsequent climax scenes. Easier to pull off with super MCs. #ufchat
9:35 am AnassaRh: I think most of my answers apply to multiple questions here. What I just said also applies to Q8. #ufchat
9:37 am AnassaRh: A8a: Disadvantages to powers? Having to describe them, come up with new ways to use them, extrapolate how they’ll affect daily life. #ufchat
9:38 am AnassaRh: A8a: Also, writer has to fight inclination to make MC more powerful every book. At some point, that wrecks the story. #ufchat
9:44 am AnassaRh: A9: To balance things, create foils. The MC will ID better with more-than-human partners than mere humans. Also, coolness factor. πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
9:46 am AnassaRh: @Preternatural__ Heh, no. Canadian night owl whose work conflicted with #ufchat today. 😦 Gotta love Christmas.
9:51 am AnassaRh: A10: MC has to feel human to the reader. See previous comments re: what ‘human’ means. We need someone to root for. #ufchat
9:53 am AnassaRh: Nice! RT @leapetra: in a story still buried on my hard drive. An atheist gets god like powers. Still won’t accept there are gods #ufchat
9:58 am AnassaRh: A11: UF MC takes charge and generally knows what they’re doing, how they can fight back. Horror MC just runs, can’t stop monster. #ufchat
10:02 am AnassaRh: A12 I suppose we could get philosophical and say, “we see ourselves as the Other”, as outcasts and freaks and different. #ufchat
10:03 am AnassaRh: Alternatively, it could imply we want powers, to be that person (or type) on some level. Or?just that we want to be strong? #ufchat
10:05 am AnassaRh: A13a Vanilla humans can totally be UF MCs! Just harder to fit them into mystery/action stories. See de Lint and similar fantasy. #ufchat
10:06 am AnassaRh: And honestly, I’d LOVE more vanilla (or at least non-cop-type) humans in mystery UF! Could make an arc about /learning/ to be badass.#ufchat
10:09 am AnassaRh: A14 Have only read Dead Until Dark so: liked her voice, liked her strength, liked her friendliness and average job, liked her morals.#ufchat
10:10 am AnassaRh: She felt very much like an everywoman. She takes time for people, cares, grieves, etc. #ufchat
10:12 am AnassaRh: Not true. If MC doesn’t /like/ them, they live! RT @Preternatural__: S14a Plain vanilla humans often become ensign redshirts #UFchat
10:14 am AnassaRh: A15 I’ve seen the comment a lot that UF werewolves are actually weredogs in terms of pack structure. #ufchat
10:15 am Preternatural__: @AnassaRh No, the one’s they like. They’re either redshirts or a chink in their amour that almost gets them killed book in book out #UFchat
10:15 am AnassaRh: For any monster, if they’re the MC, they’re trying to deny their heritage in some way, or atone for it. #ufchat
10:17 am AnassaRh: @Preternatural__ Agreed. But a human antagonist has a much better change of survival than a friend does. #ufchat
10:17 am AnassaRh: I’d like to see more human sidekicks who /don’t/ die at some point. @Preternatural__ #ufchat
10:18 am AnassaRh: A15a Vamps, for instance, don’t drink human blood, or try not to, or wangst. They’re basically humans with powers. Not scary. #ufchat
10:18 am jolantru: @AnassaRh Perhaps, UF werewolves behave like weredogs because they adapt to city life? #ufchat
10:19 am AnassaRh: @jolantru Perhaps, but I’d imagine rural werewolves would also be weredogs, at least in the hands of most writers. #ufchat
10:22 am jolantru: @AnassaRh Mmmm. Good point there. #ufchat
10:22 am AnassaRh: A15d: We see them from outside, like with Toby Daye (half-fae, doesn’t really /like/ Faerie), or they do something likeable. #ufchat
10:22 am AnassaRh: @jolantru Feral weredogs, on the other hand? #ufchat
10:24 am AnassaRh: A15e: Don’t see why not, but would take some thinking. Also depends on what troll looks like, and if MC had kinks. #ufchat
10:26 am AnassaRh: A16 Dunno if Frankenstein would fit as UF as is. Franky does a lot of running from monster (horror). If monster was the MC ? yeah. #ufchat
10:27 am jolantru: @AnassaRh … would be interesting to write, I think… πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
10:27 am AnassaRh: ?And just got plot bunny! Constructed man seeks revenge on creator over series, runs into mysteries everywhere creator flees. #ufchat
10:29 am AnassaRh: A17 ‘Human’ refers to mental/personality characteristics. Going back to earlier answers here: quirks and flaws, fallible, weak. #ufchat
10:30 am AnassaRh: I think there’s a touch of “made him seem normal” in there too. Phrase never said of Joe Average, always of Extraordinary people. #ufchat
6:09 pm hannahnpbowman: @AnassaRh That is a great idea! #ufchat
10:33 pm MerrieDestefano: Very excited! Will be chatting with @InkGypsy about AFTERLIFE next Sat. at 3 p.m. on #UFchat.
December 6, 2010
1:56 am inkgypsy: @MerrieDestefano We have another family thingo I have to leave for shortly but very excited about Sat! AFTERLIFE seriously ROCKS! #UFchat
2:29 am cvaldezmiller: @J_GriffinB Ohhh, a #UFchat. Cool. Will be sure to look out for the next one. I didn’t realize they had one every Saturday…
5:23 pm MerrieDestefano: Have any questions you’d like to ask about AFTERLIFE? Join me on #UFchat this Saturday, 3 p.m. PST. http://bit.ly/bPEVlz
8:34 pm LunaLindsey: RT @seattlewinegal: Absolute best ‘Lost Pet’ sign I have ever seen! http://twitpic.com/3dimyd #urbanfantasy #ufchat
11:07 pm jimnduncan: #UFchat folk. Giving away an arc of Deadworld. Simple, yet fun entry at http://bit.ly/e6OePW
11:44 pm KellyHGay: Ends tomorrow. πŸ™‚ RT @AnassaRh I’m giving away books by @katrchrdsn, @devonmonk, @KellyHGay, and DD Barant! http://bit.ly/hntFsn #ufchat
December 7, 2010
12:09 am Tanya1224: RT @KellyHGay: Ends tomorrow. πŸ™‚ RT @AnassaRh I’m giving away books by @katrchrdsn, @devonmonk, @KellyHGay, and DD Barant! http://bit.ly/hntFsn #ufchat
9:45 am inkgypsy: Best of UF 2010 by Preternatural! πŸ™‚ #UFchat RT @Preternatural__: Best of 2010 list http://bit.ly/dE5sHO
1:25 pm Preternatural__: RT @Richard_Kadrey: RT @Preternatural__: KILL THE DEAD was #2 in this year’s Best of 2010 on my site http://bit.ly/dE5sHO #UFChat
6:01 pm MerrieDestefano: Join me and @InkGypsy as we discuss themes of death and life in Urban Fantasy. This Saturday on #UFchat, 3 p.m. PST. #AFTERLIFE
6:08 pm VampBookClub: RT @MerrieDestefano: Join me and @InkGypsy as we discuss themes of death and life in Urban Fantasy. This Saturday on #UFchat, 3 p.m. PST. #AFTERLIFE

______________________________________

END OF TRANSCRIPT FOR DECEMBER 4th, 2010

Nest week we have a special guest author Q&A with Merrie Destefano!

She’s the author of the futuristic UF novel “Afterlife: The Resurrection Chronicles” and has co-authored the Walter Foster book “How to Draw Zombies” – obviously she’s no stranger to the undead..! ;)

My mini-review:

You have to read her New Orleans based, futuristic UF “Afterlife” –
beautiful, lush writing with that wonderful sense of immediacy and wit
we love in UF! It’s an ode to the city and to hope and you won’t be able
to put it down till you’re done – a stunning debut!

We’ll be talking about how life and death are handled in urban fantasy next week as well as looking at “Afterlife: The Resurrection Chronicles” AND….

(drumroll please)

We’re having a giveaway!

A signed copy of Merrie’s novel AFTERLIFE!

You need to participate in next week’s #UFchat to qualify for entry.

Each person asking Merrie a question will be given a number and then the winner will be chosen by random.org immediately after the chat!

Stay tuned to @UF_Chat on Twitter for countdowns and updates.

See you next week and bring your questions so you can be entered to win a signed copy of Merrie’s excellent debut novel “AFTERLIFE”!

Gypsy (@inkgypsy)

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