#UFchat – chat for urban fantasy writers

Transcript for September 11, 2010: Alpha Males & Other Bad Boys in UF

Today’s Topic: Alphas, bad boys, heroes & anti-heroes – who’s REALLY tough?

Official UFchat questions in YELLOW for easier reading.

Resources/ topic-related links are in BLUE.

Once again, people had a lot to say so it’s been voted we continue with the second half of the questions, focusing on betas, next week. πŸ™‚

4:42 am inkgypsy: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat
4:47 am UF_Chat: It’s almost Saturday – time for #UFchat again! @ 3pm PST/6pm EST Tomorrow’s TOPIC: The Alpha male (& his ‘Beta’ half) – let’s talk tough!
4:47 am inkgypsy: It’s almost Saturday – time for #UFchat again! @ 3pm PST/6pm EST Tomorrow’s TOPIC: The Alpha male (& his ‘Beta’ half) – let’s talk tough!
4:49 am Book_Faery: RT @inkgypsy: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat
4:50 am Wookiesgirl: RT @inkgypsy: It’s almost Saturday – time for #UFchat again! @ 3pm PST/6pm EST Tomorrow’s TOPIC: The Alpha male (& his ‘Beta’ half) – let’s talk tough!
4:53 am Daylilie222: RT @inkgypsy: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat
4:58 am inkgypsy: @Daylilie222 I’m busy trying to prep for #UFchat tomorrow – hard when not 100% Wish I had a magic whosiwhatsit handy – or an assistant.
5:05 am inkgypsy: Anybody want to pick a pros brain on hand-to-hand combat? Here: πŸ™‚ #UFchat RT @J_GriffinB I am offering to answer any questions abt h2h.
1:13 pm leapetra: as for #ufchat today. Depends how well my book signing goes.
1:48 pm simonm223: Unsure if I’ll make #UFChat today. May not be home by 6 PM. If anybody HAS fight questions http://bit.ly/8ZdrFP It’s my area of expertise.
1:48 pm simonm223: Looks like @J_GriffinB is a known expert on fight questions for #ufchat peeps if my Twitter feed doesn’t lie.
2:07 pm J_GriffinB: #ufchat expert, defined: someone whose experience is better than that of average lay-person. I have lots of experience w/street fights.
2:32 pm StephanieLMcGee: @inkgypsy Can’t make it to #UFChat (again, sigh). Very sad. But I will say I do wish just once the beta half would turn out the real hero.
3:40 pm simonm223: Good enough def to work with. RT @J_GriffinB: #ufchat expert, defined: someone whose experience is better than that of average lay-person.
3:43 pm J_GriffinB: #ufchat @simonm223 I just don’t want MMA/Muai Thai fighters calling me out. My profession lends experience, my preference is to avoid fights
5:00 pm UF_Chat: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
5:00 pm inkgypsy: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
5:01 pm Daylilie222: RT @inkgypsy: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
5:02 pm annikkawoods: @inkgypsy Today’s #UFchat sounds like a good one. Wish I could be there. I have to be someplace at 3:30 PST.
5:03 pm annikkawoods: RT @inkgypsy: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
5:05 pm rcmurphy: RT @UF_Chat: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
5:14 pm simonm223: @J_GriffinB I somehow doubt you have to worry about Muai Thai fighters calling you out on #ufchat. πŸ˜‰ I understand the sentiment entirely.
6:06 pm leapetra: These Creatures are Up for Adoption. part 1 http://bit.ly/dwGlJL #UFChat #folklore #urbanFantasy
7:38 pm QQwill: RT @inkgypsy: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
7:44 pm RoseanneSchmidt: ?? Thought it was on Post-#steampunk–RT @AnassaRh: this week’s #scifichat‘s on fantasy in the real world! I nearly did. (2-4 EST) #ufchat
8:02 pm UF_Chat: 2 hours to #UFchat! Taking on the big boys today: Alpha males, bad boys & betas too. 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
8:02 pm inkgypsy: 2 hours to #UFchat! Taking on the big boys today: Alpha males, bad boys & betas too. 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
8:03 pm rcmurphy: RT @UF_Chat: 2 hours to #UFchat! Taking on the big boys today: Alpha males, bad boys & betas too. 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
8:05 pm QQwill: RT @inkgypsy 2 hours to #UFchat! Taking on the big boys today: Alpha males, bad boys & betas too. 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
8:10 pm ShadowPhoenix32: sadly, i have to miss #UFchat today. can’t wait to read the transcripts
8:11 pm J_GriffinB: wonders if Alphas are allowed to join in. I’d hate to crash an alpha-bashing fete. @inkgypsy #Ufchat
8:15 pm inkgypsy: @J_GriffinB All alphas welcome. We’re trying to sort the real men from the pretenders… πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
8:16 pm inkgypsy: @ShadowPhoenix32 😦 We’ll miss you. Early or late comments on the topic are both welcome. Just use the hashtag. #UFchat
8:17 pm J_GriffinB: @inkgypsy I eat quiche, speak french and take long walks… Do I pretend? #ufchat
8:20 pm TheMonsterBlogs: I may be back for #UFChat though maybe as @Saffy and only if the insomnia that is threatening hits!
8:29 pm inkgypsy: @J_GriffinB He he – we’ll have to see what people consider manly… do you do it all while juggling Uzis? #UFchat
8:31 pm inkgypsy: @jimnduncan From what I’m seeing a lot have issues – the stereotype rules & it’s bothering readers more & more. #UFchat
9:00 pm UF_Chat: 60 min countdown to #UFchat – the boys are in the ring today: Alphas, bad boys, heroes & anti-heroes – who’s REALLY tough? 3pm PST/6pm EST
9:00 pm inkgypsy: 60 min countdown to #UFchat – the boys are in the ring today: Alphas, bad boys, heroes & anti-heroes – who’s REALLY tough? 3pm PST/6pm EST
9:20 pm UF_Chat: Tough-love for Alphas! What do girls want & boys respect? TODAY: sorting bad boys from bad (stereotypical) characters #UFchat 3pmPST Pls RT
9:20 pm inkgypsy: Tough-love for Alphas! What do girls want & boys respect? TODAY: sorting bad boys from bad (stereotypical) characters #UFchat 3pmPST Pls RT
9:23 pm rcmurphy: RT @UF_Chat: Tough-love for Alphas! What do girls want & boys respect? TODAY: sorting bad boys from bad (stereotypical) characters #UFchat 3pmPST Pls RT
9:24 pm inkgypsy: @rcmurphy Interested in your two cents today! Bad boys have a lot of issues.. LOL (& writing them well isn’t so easy) #UFchat
9:27 pm shadowflame1974: RT @inkgypsy: @rcmurphy Interested in your two cents today! Bad boys have a lot of issues.. LOL (& writing them well isn’t so easy) #UFchat
9:27 pm Daylilie222: RT @inkgypsy: Tough-love for Alphas! What do girls want & boys respect? TODAY: sorting bad boys from bad (stereotypical) characters #UFchat 3pmPST Pls RT
9:29 pm rcmurphy: @inkgypsy Actually my strong point is bad boys. lol Hopefully I can get my edits done in time to join y’all. #UFchat
9:30 pm UF_Chat: 30 min countdown to #UFchat! TODAY: Bad boys: How big are their boots anyway? (in EVERY context!) Alphas, betas, heroes & more 3pmPST/6pmEST
9:30 pm inkgypsy: 30 min countdown to #UFchat! TODAY: Bad boys: How big are their boots anyway? (in EVERY context!) Alphas, betas, heroes & more 3pmPST/6pmEST
9:31 pm AnassaRh: I’ll actually be attending #ufchat on time today! No late-night rambling this time! I’m excited. πŸ™‚
9:32 pm shadowflame1974: RT @UF_Chat: 30 min countdown to #UFchat! TODAY: Bad boys: How big are their boots anyway? (in EVERY context!) Alphas, betas, heroes & more 3pmPST/6pmEST
9:40 pm Katen: Oh hey! I’m around to catch #ufchat!
9:41 pm inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Woot! I’m so excited to see you taking part live! (Of course I’ll miss the midnight ramblings.. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
9:43 pm inkgypsy: @psynde Most of us will be in tweetchat. Just sign in with twitter account & put in the #UFchat hashtag. πŸ™‚
9:44 pm UF_Chat: Primer for #UFchat early birds: Read VERY LAST PARAGRAPH of Tor’s Roundtable ParanormalRom Heroines & Heroes http://bit.ly/db6z2y
9:44 pm inkgypsy: Primer for #UFchat early birds: Read VERY LAST PARAGRAPH of Tor’s Roundtable ParanormalRom Heroines & Heroes http://bit.ly/db6z2y
9:45 pm inkgypsy: 15 mins to #UFchat! Ringside seats: it’s the Alphas challenging the wannabes. Boots, claws, teeth, uzis.. don’t expect fair fighting 3pm PST
9:45 pm UF_Chat: 15 mins to #UFchat! Ringside seats: it’s the Alphas challenging the wannabes. Boots, claws, teeth, uzis.. don’t expect fair fighting 3pm PST
9:46 pm shadowflame1974: RT @inkgypsy: 15 mins to #UFchat! Ringside seats: it’s the Alphas challenging the wannabes. Boots, claws, teeth, uzis.. don’t expect fair fighting 3pm PST
9:51 pm inkgypsy: @StephanieLMcGee I’ll make sure this comment is in the transcript. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
9:52 pm inkgypsy: RT @simonm223: #UFChat If anybody HAS fight questions http://bit.ly/8ZdrFP It’s my area of expertise.
9:52 pm LocoLuna: Watched Big Trouble In Little China – fab film, really enjoyed it. Now in bed, waiting for #ufchat which starts in a few mins. Woohoo πŸ˜‰
9:55 pm psynde: I love big trouble in little china #UFchat
9:55 pm inkgypsy: For those who missed it last night: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat
9:55 pm psynde: Hi all!!! #UFchat
9:56 pm inkgypsy: Getting on my #UFchat boots, changing identities to #UFchat mod & bringing my 1st aid kit today – ringside could get bloody. πŸ˜‰
9:57 pm simonm223: Hey #UFChat I am in the house.
9:57 pm UF_Chat: @psynde Hey lady – you’re early but there’s lots to prep with. πŸ˜‰ Big Trouble is LOT of fun! #ufchat
9:58 pm HC_Palmquist: RT @inkgypsy: Getting on my #UFchat boots, changing identities to #UFchat mod & bringing my 1st aid kit today – ringside could get bloody. πŸ˜‰
9:58 pm rcmurphy: Lurking for the first few moments. Recovering from editing. Ugh! #UFchat
9:58 pm psynde: I know im early I always worry it work for me #UFchat
9:58 pm UF_Chat: Taking on the BIG BOYS today. Alphas & betas ?all about tough love. Show no fear. There?s safety in numbers. (Add your muscle!) #ufchat
9:58 pm J_GriffinB: Hey all. I’m not a UF writer, but have been known to read a bit. Fantasy and SF writer, published RPG writer. #ufchat
9:59 pm shadowflame1974: Hey everyone #UFchat Got my notebook and my box of klenex (allergies)
9:59 pm psynde: You don’t have tone a writer to be here yes? #UFchat
9:59 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB Welcome! All readers & writers welcome to join in #UFchat. #ufchat
10:00 pm UF_Chat: 3, 2… and we are now live with #UFchat! What is an Alpha anyway? Does tough = alpha? Are our heroes heroic? We?ll find out today! #ufchat
10:00 pm J_GriffinB: @J_GriffinB survivor of a fair number of fights as well. #ufchat
10:00 pm simonm223: SF writer here but I read a lot of #UF and have a terrible #UF manuscript under my bed. #ufchat
10:00 pm AnassaRh: Getting antsy with anticipation. H’lo, everyone! #ufchat
10:00 pm UF_Chat: TODAY?S TOPIC: Alpha males and their ?Beta? sides ? let?s talk tough! #ufchat
10:01 pm UF_Chat: As per usual Q = question for group & ‘S’ = statement (and will be followed by another ‘Q’). #ufchat
10:01 pm ShoeWhyspers: RT @inkgypsy For those who missed it last night: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat << wow!
10:02 pm UF_Chat: Hello everyone! Let’s do this thing! Q1: How would you define ?alpha? as in alpha male? #ufchat
10:02 pm shadowflame1974: @simonm223 #UFchat doesnt everyone?
10:03 pm psynde: Who is the ” group” this week? #UFchat
10:03 pm rcmurphy: I loathe the term “alpha” but for my books it tends to be the men that put themselves in charge when the shite hits the fan. lol #UFchat
10:03 pm UF_Chat: Q1: Alpha males – when you hear the phrase, what does it mean to you? #ufchat
10:04 pm simonm223: @shadowflame1974 ROTFLMFAO! On #ufchat possibly.
10:04 pm UF_Chat: @psynde Anybody attending #UFchat is the group. πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
10:04 pm psynde: Ah!! #UFchat
10:05 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy So in charge = alpha to you? Or takes charge perhaps? #ufchat
10:05 pm Jinxie_G: RT @UF_Chat: 3, 2… and we are now live with #UFchat! What is an Alpha anyway? Does tough = alpha? Are our heroes heroic? We?ll find out today! #ufchat
10:05 pm psynde: Sometimes the use of the alpha word or formula sets me up not to like char! #UFchat
10:05 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Q1 alpha: strong male. top dog. Usually a leader. effective at such a role
10:05 pm Book_Faery: #UFchat Alpha to me = Inherent leadership skills. Kinda pushy. Tough. Strong/large build. Usually super stubborn. Overprotective
10:05 pm UF_Chat: Q1a: How would you describe your ideal alpha male (character)? Doesn?t have to be a love interest. #ufchat
10:05 pm Jinxie_G: RT @UF_Chat: TODAY?S TOPIC: Alpha males and their ?Beta? sides ? let?s talk tough! #ufchat
10:05 pm psynde: They gotta have some weakess #UFchat
10:05 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat Takes charge is more fitting. But they HAVE to be competent. #UFchat
10:06 pm UF_Chat: I like that – needing to appear ‘male’ at all times , not necessarily about macho but ‘male’ by their definition. @AnassaRh #ufchat
10:07 pm psynde: Jim- they do and I hate that asshat thing.. Do they have to be jerks? #UFchat
10:07 pm AnassaRh: Agreed. RT @shadowflame1974: #UFchat Q1 alpha: strong male. top dog. Usually a leader. effective at such a role
10:07 pm jeanettemarsh: RT @inkgypsy: For those who missed it last night: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat
10:07 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Q1: pushy, has the ability to override the group when necessary. Holds all the strings. can control self when shit hits the fan
10:08 pm UF_Chat: @psynde What kind of weaknesses should an alpha have? Or do you mean characters sh. have weaknesses so they’re not boringly perfect? #ufchat
10:08 pm jimnduncan: It seems the ‘jerk’ aspect of Alphas is for the sole purpose of heroines to dismantle over course of story. #ufchat
10:08 pm simonm223: A1: My primary antagonist is quite alpha. A lot of my books conflict driven b/c can’t handle protag growing up, makn own decisions. #ufchat
10:08 pm AnassaRh: @Book_Faery That’s definitely what we see a lot of in UF. Not sure all alphas in reality are like that, though. #ufchat
10:08 pm psynde: Yes I hate that boringly perfect thing with a side of jerk. #UFchat
10:09 pm psynde: Something people struggle with.. #UFchat
10:09 pm simonm223: A1 (cont): Antagonist in question is competent, confident and used to being in control. Socially adept except when temper flares. #ufchat
10:09 pm jimnduncan: I just don’t like the generic “he’s so tough but a real ass” as a setup for the relational conflict. Completely overused. #ufchat
10:10 pm shadowflame1974: Q1 #UfChat Has the ability to lead. but all might not think he is a good leader.
10:10 pm rcmurphy: @jimnduncan I agree. Not all men are jerks. Writers need to find new conflicts to work with. #UFchat
10:10 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan Agree on the jerk to be dismantled – too often true. The stereotypical is a problem too. #ufchat
10:11 pm shadowflame1974: RT @rcmurphy: Alphas will be the men with scars on the inside as well as the outside, but they are very good at hiding it. #UFchat
10:11 pm AnassaRh: A1a: My ideal alpha would be strong of personality, confident in self, well-rounded person. Take-charge, but knows when to give in. #ufchat
10:11 pm UF_Chat: Actually seeing a lot of grumbling among readers that the alphas are too much like that. @jimnduncan #ufchat
10:11 pm shadowflame1974: @rcmurphy #UFchat much of the macho appearance is to hide those scars
10:11 pm UF_Chat: RT @rcmurphy: @jimnduncan I agree. Not all men are jerks. Writers need to find new conflicts to work with. #UFchat
10:12 pm UF_Chat: Q2: Can you give examples of Alpha males in UF? – Both bad guys and good guys? #ufchat
10:12 pm AnassaRh: Definitely don’t like alphas who overrule everyone, always know best. Part of being strong is knowing you don’t know everything. #ufchat
10:12 pm rcmurphy: @shadowflame1974 That is when they come off as jerks. I’ve had a lot of practice watching guys trying to hide their pain & I use it. #UFchat
10:12 pm simonm223: RT @jimnduncan: It seems the ‘jerk’ aspect of Alphas is for the sole purpose of heroines to dismantle over course of story. #ufchat
10:13 pm SpiceBites: Hi guys and gals. Glad I made it for the mantalk! #ufchat
10:13 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat If you want a good stereotype Alpha male, look at how messed up Laurell Hamilton made her Richard. (Anita Blake books) #UFchat
10:13 pm shadowflame1974: Q2 #UFchat CEMurphy’s Captain Morrison, Love that one
10:13 pm psynde: @UFchat well Terrible for instance Unholy ghosts def an alpha but broken too #UFchat
10:13 pm simonm223: @ufchat there is also that dominant men can be jerks. But that’s not necessarily the case when alpha male is jerky protagonist. #ufchat
10:14 pm SpiceBites: I’ll take a strong man, without a side of jerk, plz. #ufchat
10:14 pm AnassaRh: Q2: *wanders off to bookshelf* #ufchat
10:14 pm psynde: Sorry typing on a iPod.. Issues #UFchat
10:15 pm jimnduncan: If you’re going to have a ‘jerk’ alpha, you better give sympathetic reasons for being so and make it clear to the reader. #ufchat
10:15 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Come back! LOL #ufchat
10:16 pm UF_Chat: OK what about the ‘big’ UF series? K.Harrisson, P. Briggs, C. Harris, J. Butcher? #ufchat
10:16 pm psynde: @jimnduncan yes exactly #UFchat
10:16 pm SpiceBites: Now Darkness and Frost in LKH’s Merry series are my idea of alphas #ufchat
10:17 pm UF_Chat: Q2a: So what’s a ‘strong man without a side of jerk’? How would you describe that? #ufchat
10:17 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Patricia Briggs Adam
10:17 pm rcmurphy: heh, I really need to read more. My brain is all wrapped up in my annoying boys. #UFchat
10:17 pm Book_Faery: @UF_Chat Love Adam from Mercy Thompson series. He’s an alpha, but he’s still a sweetheart #ufchat
10:17 pm AnassaRh: Q2: Good guys: Lord Maccon (Carriger), David Cassius (Barant), Zayvion (Monk), Tybalt (McGuire). #ufchat
10:17 pm psynde: @UF_Chat well yeah Harry Dresden but he’s barely an alpha.. He’s more hero by proxy #UFchat
10:17 pm simonm223: @jimnduncan he’s a control-freak who spirals into obsession with power until he has to be put down like a dog in the last act. #ufchat
10:17 pm rcmurphy: @SpiceBites Mmmm… that pair is yummy. #UFchat
10:17 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat both men have something to protect. Morrison a police station and a city
10:18 pm UF_Chat: Q2b: Does a bad boy an Alpha make? What?s the connection between alpha males and bad boys? #ufchat
10:18 pm AnassaRh: Q2: Ambiguous/sideline: Will in the Greywalker novels, Rhyzkahl in Rowland’s. #ufchat
10:18 pm shadowflame1974: #UFChat Adam a pack and a teenage daughter.
10:18 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Strong w/out side of jerk: Charles in P. Brigg’s Alpha & Omega #ufchat
10:18 pm SpiceBites: @rcmurphy πŸ™‚ Yeah that too. #ufchat
10:18 pm simonm223: A2A: That is a hero within genre fic – usually. Oh and a2: Protag – Roland in Dark Tower #ufchat
10:19 pm rcmurphy: Bad boys are angry to be angry unless there is a damn good reason I rarely see them as true alphas. #UFchat
10:19 pm AnassaRh: @UF_Chat Yes, I came back. Just needed some spellings. πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
10:19 pm UF_Chat: @psynde & he’s loner – alphas are leaders of group (sometimes rabble) -so Dresden can’t be a true alpha until he turns mentor/warden #ufchat
10:19 pm simonm223: A2b: Not necessarily; an alpha personality has more to do with control / leadership issues than general dickishness. #ufchat
10:19 pm AnassaRh: Ah yes, Butcher. I’d definitely call Dresden an alpha. #ufchat
10:20 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Q2b: not always if the bad boy can step up to the roll then they can be an alpha but mainly they are outcaste by nature
10:20 pm psynde: @UF_Chat yes exactly!!! #UFchat
10:20 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat ooh interesting point. So a loner can’t be an alpha? But what about attitudewise? #ufchat
10:20 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh At what point though? He doesn’t start that way – he’s a loner at the beginning (more on loners later) #ufchat
10:21 pm UF_Chat: S: The term ?alpha male? in UF comes mainly from writing werewolves & packs, based on wolf pack hierarchies (as understood at time). #ufchat
10:21 pm simonm223: @uf_chat how spoiler friendly are we in this group? #ufchat
10:21 pm psynde: @UF_Chat realizing I don’t read much with alpha males. Always want something new! #UFchat
10:22 pm UF_Chat: @simonm223 Assume most have read the big ones – maybe not recent bks to be on safe side. #ufchat
10:22 pm UF_Chat: Q3: How has this influenced how people see the ?alpha? in UF? #ufchat
10:22 pm psynde: @UF_Chat yes like Patti Briggs or lkh #UFchat
10:22 pm shadowflame1974: #UFChat the bad boy is mainly in it for his self. The
10:22 pm AnassaRh: Q2a: My definitions from earlier, I think. Strong, confident, willing to concede to others’ expertise. #ufchat
10:23 pm jimnduncan: @UF_Chat Hmmm, might disagree with that. I think Alpha is really more a mindset than actual structure requiring group to lead. #ufchat
10:23 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat The alpha has something to protect, even if it is one other person
10:23 pm rcmurphy: Wolves are snappy, use force to keep the pack in order. Alphas in UF are expected to be the same. #UFchat
10:24 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat I think a good alpha would have to balance out his need of being in control with being able to let one person handle an aspect
10:24 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan You’ll like the next question then – because alpha term in UF came from the wolves generally… I’ll ask now #ufchat
10:24 pm SpiceBites: RT @shadowflame1974: #UFchat The alpha has something to protect, even if it is one other person. LIKE! #ufchat
10:24 pm jimnduncan: @UF_Chat Really? I thought the Alpha term while certainly associated with wolves, is more generic from romance genre. #ufchat
10:24 pm AnassaRh: Yes. RT @jimnduncan:@UF_Chat Hmmm, might disagree. I think Alpha is rly more a mindset than actual structure requiring group to lead #ufchat
10:24 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Actually wolves are not snappy – not unless someone is challenging – (talk to me later – I’m up on biology/wolf research) #ufchat
10:25 pm LocoLuna: Agree! Sorry , lurking trouble with phone…RT @shadowflame1974: #UFchat The alpha has something to protect, even if it is one other person
10:25 pm J_GriffinB: emerges from pool of router agony #ufchat
10:25 pm simonm223: @shadowflame1974 I don’t think that’s universal. May be motvd by protectiveness but cn hv othr reasons for wanting to be in charge. #ufchat
10:26 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat My wolf stuff is outdated. lol I haven’t worked with them in a while since they became “too” popular. #UFchat
10:26 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat In good fiction, he’s a trope, in bad, he’s a charicature. #ufchat
10:26 pm AnassaRh: RT @shadowflame1974: #UFchat I think a good alpha would have to balance out his need of being in control with being able to let one person handle an aspect
10:26 pm SpiceBites: Q3A I think in uf the alpha male and heroine are on more equal terms, like Ilona Andrews’ series #ufchat
10:26 pm UF_Chat: So it looks like people consider alpha in UF = hero type more than leader/protector/general? #ufchat
10:27 pm J_GriffinB: caricature, pardon. #ufchat
10:27 pm UF_Chat: Q3b: What are some traits that might be mistaken for alpha-traits when in fact they may not be at all? #ufchat
10:27 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat It’s all about breeding, in the natural world. #ufchat
10:27 pm simonm223: Agreed. RT @J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat In good fiction, he’s a trope, in bad, he’s a charicature. #ufchat
10:28 pm AnassaRh: Q3: Can’t speak for others, but I certainly tend to view alphas as stereotypical alpha wolves. #ufchat
10:28 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat asshole. #ufchat
10:28 pm AnassaRh: Q3a: Well, UF alphas tend to all be jerks? lol. #ufchat
10:28 pm simonm223: @UF_Chat Not necessarily. Heroes are heroes, alphas are alphas. They may or may not overlap. #ufchat
10:29 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Not always hero, but accessory to the herone. A complication to the major plot. have you dealt with an alpha personality? πŸ˜€
10:29 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB So you’re saying alpha = most likely have genes passed on? Wins right to procreate? Not all based on fights tho. #ufchat
10:29 pm jimnduncan: Alphas want control, to lead, protect, know they’re competent to do so, and don’t mind telling everyone so, often to their detriment #ufchat
10:29 pm shadowflame1974: Q3b #UFchat any leadership role. Just because they lead does not make them alpha
10:29 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Think is general agreement UF alphas need a revisit for sure. Stereotypes still dominate the genre. #ufchat
10:29 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Q3b: Nora Roberts actually used alpha charecteristics to create a side char. who wasn’t an alpha hero. In Blue Smoke maybe #ufchat
10:30 pm rcmurphy: @shadowflame1974 Try working with a group of sword fighters. They ALL want to be alpha. #UFchat
10:30 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan To their detriment? (that doesn’t seem like an alpha trait to me personally) Can you explain? #ufchat
10:30 pm jimnduncan: Of course, they must learn to let others be competent as well, but to me, this doesn’t mean they have to be asshats. #ufchat
10:30 pm AnassaRh: @UF_Chat Don’t think hero and leader have to be different roles. I’d look up to a good leader or protector. And heros CAN be betas. #ufchat
10:30 pm JulieeJohnsonn: Urban fantasy readers & writers, in case you don’t know: #UFchat is on right now!
10:30 pm J_GriffinB: #ufchat God save me from this router!
10:31 pm SpiceBites: @jimnduncan know they r competent or auto assume? #ufchat
10:31 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy He – I have worked with sword fighters – the strategists are usually top dog not the strongest guy. #ufchat
10:31 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh yay betas! More on them soon. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:31 pm jimnduncan: @UF_Chat because the tend to come off as selfish blowhards if they do. #ufchat
10:31 pm shadowflame1974: @rcmurphy #UFchat true. I work with RealEstate agents. egadds touchy sorts they can be
10:32 pm jimnduncan: Ok, back in a min, got dinner cooking here. #ufchat
10:32 pm UF_Chat: Q4: What are the reasons kick-ass girls seek out/are drawn to alpha-types, beyond the obvious tough girl needs a tough guy to match? #ufchat
10:32 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat Which is why I was the leader for a while. The boys HATED that. *snickers* #UFchat
10:32 pm J_GriffinB: #ufchat Wannabees often use the excuse, “I’m an asshole because I am in charge.” That is what I meant by asshole comment.
10:32 pm simonm223: @uf_chat that’s because the strongest guy may get stabbed first. And then it doesn’t matter how strong you are. #ufchat
10:32 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Woot! I’m for a good Beta too πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:32 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan The best alphas I’ve seen are very good at manipulating people tho – don’t tend to put self in danger unless protecting #ufchat
10:32 pm JulieeJohnsonn: Sorry I’m late…gather topic is heros + alphas? Defining each? Personally, think hero = alpha…a stereotype hard 2 break out of #UFchat
10:33 pm shadowflame1974: @SpiceBites #UFchat Usually they gain the role through fighting or feats of strength. I would say not an auto assume
10:33 pm rcmurphy: Hard-ass women in UF need someone to take the protector role so they can become “feminine” again. #UFchat
10:33 pm UF_Chat: @simonm223 Agreed. (I miss my swordplay!) #ufchat
10:33 pm ParkerXL: There’s some really strange views of what makes a leader going on in #UFChat… Just saying.
10:34 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Nice point! Females do tend to worry about losing feminine side when they get very tough. #ufchat
10:34 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat usually heroine will have a problem she can’t face alone.
10:34 pm J_GriffinB: can someone please give me the #ufchat url real quick.
10:34 pm Book_Faery: This RT @rcmurphy: Hard-ass women in UF need someone to take the protector role so they can become “feminine” again. #UFchat
10:34 pm SpiceBites: @shadowflame1974 True, but I like stories where the heroine or sm1 comes up w/a smarter solution over aggressiveness #ufchat
10:34 pm simonm223: a4: what @rcmurphy said. #ufchat
10:35 pm simonm223: RT @rcmurphy: Hard-ass women in UF need someone to take the protector role so they can become “feminine” again. #UFchat
10:35 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @RCMurphy But I like the ‘hard ass’ type so much! Why R they so compelling? ‘Feminine’ = wimp 2 me…dunno why #ufchat
10:35 pm AnassaRh: @rcmurphy @UF_Chat Do all tough women want to be feminine, though? Would think some are tough because they want to, not need to be. #ufchat
10:35 pm UF_Chat: @ParkerXL Interesting isn’t it? But in fiction we can try on all the different ideas without repercussions…thank goodness. #ufchat
10:35 pm UF_Chat: Q4a: What are some insecurities on the guy?s side that might draw him to her? Vice versa? #ufchat
10:35 pm simonm223: @ufchat The one thing I really miss about my kwoon is (aside from friends there) was the presence of other sword nuts to spar with #ufchat
10:35 pm rcmurphy: @JulieeJohnsonn I like hard-ass women, but what sells is when the women find a man to protect them so they can be a girl again. #UFchat
10:36 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Not ‘be feminine’ as such but they don’t want to be considered ‘men with boobs’ either. #ufchat
10:36 pm rcmurphy: @AnassaRh Again, I revert to Anita Blake. She’s referred to as the male in her relationships, the protector as well…. #UFchat
10:37 pm simonm223: @AnassaRh when we look at heroines in #UF we see a lot who are presented as wanting to be feminine. Sookie Stackhouse for instance. #ufchat
10:37 pm J_GriffinB: @rcmurphy alpha females exist, and can be harder on betas than any male #ufchat
10:37 pm SpiceBites: RT @rcmurphy: Hard-ass women in UF need someone to take the protector role…Carrie Vaughn has an essay on this #ufchat
10:37 pm rcmurphy: Some women enjoy being a hard-ass. (btw my background is para-rom. I tend to mis UF with it. Sorry!) #UFchat
10:37 pm rbwood: @RCMurphy I need you to be my crit partner for my UF. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:37 pm UF_Chat: @JulieeJohnsonn Feminine in this instance is the femaleness vs the maleness – not about girly things I think. (see ‘men with boobs’) #ufchat
10:37 pm AnassaRh: Certainly a reason. @shadowflame1974 #UFchat usually heroine will have a problem she can’t face alone.
10:38 pm simonm223: @rcmurphy has hit it on the head. At the same time making the woman tough lets her approach the relationship on a more even footing #ufchat
10:38 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Insecurities: heroine will get hurt, lose the pack, alpha not strong enough, even the appearance of another alpha makes good confli
10:38 pm AnassaRh: I’ll agree to that. RT @UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Not ‘be feminine’ as such but they don’t want to be considered ‘men with boobs’ either. #ufchat
10:38 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy I couldn’t find the whole essay by itself – was part of another big topic. If you find pls link? #ufchat
10:38 pm rcmurphy: @simonm223 Exactly. If your UF has a relationship & the woman isn’t strong the alpha will overwhelm her & make it more romance. #UFchat
10:39 pm UF_Chat: Q4b: Is the kick-ass girls attraction to bad boys the same, similar or completely different to the attraction to alpha types? #ufchat
10:39 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat I didn’t have the essay… Uhh… Quick, who had the essay??? #UFchat
10:39 pm AnassaRh: @simonm223 I’m not saying no woman wants to be feminine. Just saying “woman needs man to be woman” is a little generalistic. #ufchat
10:39 pm UF_Chat: RT @rcmurphy: @simonm223 Exactly. If your UF has a relationship & the woman isn’t strong the alpha will overwhelm her & make it more romance. #UFchat
10:40 pm SpiceBites: Speaking of female alphas…P. Briggs’ Omega character, Anna, is very interesting #ufchat
10:40 pm jimnduncan: @rcmurphy which wouldn’t be bad if the protection didn’t usurp her ability to still kick ass. #ufchat
10:40 pm rcmurphy: Hard-ass women like bad boys so they have someone to protect. Bad boys are often broken & need fixing. Like an old car. #UFchat
10:40 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat you mean traits: rugged individualist hard ass female vs. soft, emotional, needs to be protected female…. #ufchat
10:40 pm SpiceBites: RT @rcmurphy: @UF_Chat I didnt have the essay… Uhh… Quick, who had the essay??? Sorry, was commenting on your tweet #ufchat
10:40 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Insecurities of heroine: has to do it all (supermom conflict) no time for self, no relaxation
10:41 pm J_GriffinB: @rcmurphy Codependency, anyone? #ufchat
10:41 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Never mind – I love Carrie Vaughn’s essays/treatises on UF! Very good – even the ones from years ago still applicable. #ufchat
10:41 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @RCMurphy That’s exactly the kind of formula I like! The other way around makes me cringe…#ufchat
10:42 pm rcmurphy: @J_GriffinB Exactly. The woman gets her crutch so she’s always a hard-ass & the bad boy gets someone to take the blame for them. #UFchat
10:42 pm SpiceBites: ESSAY: Author Carrie Vaughn had an essay http://www.archetypewriting.com/articles/writing/CV_urban-fantasy2.htm #ufchat
10:42 pm AnassaRh: Yes. RT @shadowflame1974: #UFchat Insecurities of heroine: has to do it all (supermom conflict) no time for self, no relaxation
10:42 pm UF_Chat: Q5: How would you define tough? How is it different to ?alpha?? #ufchat
10:43 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat am currently reading Carrie Vaughn…am curious about the treatise you are referring to! #ufchat
10:43 pm simonm223: A4a: Veering slightly out of #uf and into #sci-fi but as my protag comes into his own he has a lot of doubt about his humanity. #ufchat
10:43 pm UF_Chat: Q5a: How about dominant? Is that the same as Alpha or a different thing again? #ufchat
10:43 pm UF_Chat: @SpiceBites Thank you! Love her essays. #ufchat
10:43 pm J_GriffinB: The issue is a biological one. If your alpha is no longer living, or never was one, should he really be an alpha? #ufchat
10:44 pm SpiceBites: @JulieeJohnsonn Just posted a link to the essay #ufchat
10:44 pm UF_Chat: @JulieeJohnsonn On her blog she has a lot of very good stuff – from years ago & more recent too. #ufchat
10:44 pm simonm223: A4b: Similar but not entirely the same. A bad boy may not have the force of personality of an alpha male. #ufchat
10:44 pm bonn1511: #ufchat in my UF the woman is strong and saves the guy but he is not a whimp #ufchat
10:44 pm leapetra: sorry only can stop in to say hi #ufchat
10:44 pm AnassaRh: Q5: Tough: Able to go further, do more, endure more before being overwhelmed. #ufchat
10:44 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat supermom tendencies will bring in the alpha in a man. Make her share the burden.
10:45 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat tough=survivor Alpha=domination in order to bring about next generation. Need to be tough to survive as beta #ufchat
10:45 pm simonm223: A4c: returning to A4a, those insecurities help the his partner to decide that she wants to be in a relationship with her. #ufchat
10:45 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB You mean if he can’t pass his traits on – eg making another vamp doesn’t count unless he passes on strength or similar? #ufchat
10:45 pm AnassaRh: Tough has nothing to do with heroism or leadership. My antag is way tougher than my hero. #ufchat
10:45 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra *waves* How did book signing go? #ufchat
10:45 pm simonm223: A4c (cont): She sees him do some awful things and the fact that he’s not ok with that resolves some of her conflict. #ufchat
10:45 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat dominant is a part of alpha. cant be #1 dog if someone can bluff you.
10:46 pm SpiceBites: @simonm223 True: Morrelli is a Bad boy, Ranger is Alpha #ufchat
10:46 pm jimnduncan: tough for me is just the ability to endure in the face of hardship/conflict. #ufchat
10:46 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat The store was dead due to a festival down the street. Sold 2 copies so really good #ufchat
10:46 pm UF_Chat: @shadowflame1974 Wish that were true in real life too – seen too many supermoms with partners letting them take care of it all. 😦 #ufchat
10:46 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra Congrats! #ufchat
10:46 pm simonm223: A5a: Say rather control and then it’d be an integral part of an alpha personality. Control may be internal or external. #ufchat
10:46 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @SpiceBites many thanks! have looked it up! #ufchat
10:47 pm UF_Chat: Q6: What part does physical strength & fighting/violence play in an Alpha?s world? Does it have to? #ufchat
10:47 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat When calling him an alpha, yes a writer does have to consider this. #ufchat
10:47 pm AnassaRh: Q5a: Dominant is definitely an alpha trait. #ufchat
10:47 pm SpiceBites: @leapetra Congrats on the sales! Every copy sold adds up πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:47 pm rcmurphy: (sorry had to take a snack break. Starting to get a headache. I blame alpha male egos. lol) #UFchat
10:47 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat A true alpha does not have to use violence within his social pack. He dominates within by personality, outside (cont) #ufchat
10:48 pm shadowflame1974: @UF_Chat #UFchat oh i know to my own sorrow 😦 but better now
10:48 pm J_GriffinB: he has to take whatever phys action required to retain position against outsiders. #ufchat
10:48 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh I should have added resources about choleric personalities & leader traits but worried we’d get into politics… #ufchat
10:48 pm simonm223: A6: In Genre fiction it’s going to play a role. Simple as that. Whether #Fantasy #scifi, #horror or #UF there will be conflict. #ufchat
10:48 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @SpiceBites Agreed. Ranger just has that extra element of badness/toughness/edginess to him that Morrelli does not #ufchat
10:49 pm shadowflame1974: Q6 #ufchat it has a lot to do with it. If you can’t keep your role you are no longer alpha. No protection from others taking what you hav
10:49 pm simonm223: A6 cont: and that conflict will, more often than not, have a physical component. #ufchat
10:49 pm rcmurphy: My alphas need to be skilled in fighting. That is because I gave them jobs tht require they protect someone. It’s not a social thing #UFchat
10:49 pm AnassaRh: Point! RT @simonm223: Say rather control & then it’d B an integral part of an alpha personality. Control may B internal or external. #ufchat
10:49 pm J_GriffinB: @rcmurphy expressing ego is not the alpha’s true nature. The alpha knows what it is, and needn’t pump up. #ufchat
10:50 pm UF_Chat: Q6a: How physically capable/dominant do they have to be? #ufchat
10:51 pm leapetra: Best leader example ever, Brigadier from Dr. Who. He would never send his men in if he wasn’t willing to take the risk as well. #ufchat
10:51 pm UF_Chat: Q6b: What about bullying through to abuse? Is that ever acceptable from alphas? #ufchat
10:51 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @J_GriffinB Agreed! Alpha is not about ego. #ufchat
10:51 pm simonm223: @rcmurphy I’m having fun with my most alpha-male character. But he’s an antagonist so I’m able to take some of the brakes off. #ufchat
10:51 pm AnassaRh: Q6: Fairly big part, I think. Alphas will be strong and fight when they need to. Will not see a completely passive alpha. #ufchat
10:51 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat that depends entirely on the shitty circumstance you are going to put them rhough. #ufchat
10:52 pm leatherzebra: The woes of being a ruler/alpha makes for great conflict in UF. Leadership vs power mongering, etc. #ufchat
10:52 pm rcmurphy: @simonm223 I’m one of those hard-ass women. Writing my males tends to be a test of wills. lol #UFchat
10:52 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat some are lucky enough to have the physical traits to back them up (my character Steopa) yet they should not rely on it #ufchat
10:52 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Alpha is a leader, not the toughest person. I know lots of tough ppl who are still not leaders #ufchat
10:52 pm UF_Chat: @simonm223 Heh – funny about taking brakes off. Easier when tough don’t have to care about people. See @leatherzebra comment too. #ufchat
10:53 pm SpiceBites: Q6A OK, not uf, but have you read Ender’s Shadow? The MC def. not physically dom. but def. alpha #ufchat
10:53 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Alpha is like being a parent. It’s being responsible for the well being of many people, putting the family first #ufchat
10:53 pm simonm223: A6a: It depends on the nature of the world the story is set in. They should be able to back up their mental fortitude physically. #ufchat
10:53 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat again, healthy alpha won’t resort to this. Though one that feels they are being shorted in pack might certainly get evil. #ufchat
10:53 pm rcmurphy: Alphas that abuse lose the title. It is a socially given title. If they neglect or abuse those that gave it, they are sent packing. #UFchat
10:53 pm UF_Chat: Q7: Are those in charge ALWAYS Alphas? Should they be? #ufchat
10:54 pm simonm223: A6b: We expect it from antagonists. IF a protagonist acts that way we’re heading quickly down the path to anti-hero. #ufchat
10:54 pm SpiceBites: OMG, my hubby is cooking something & I’m tempted to runaway to the kitchen #ufchat
10:54 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat alphas seem2B in prime physical condition 2 start…tho that can change with conflict…then they overcome/transcend pain #ufchat
10:54 pm J_GriffinB: @leatherzebra Again, tough=ability to survive. Alpha=ability to pass genes on. got to be tougher to be beta and get to eat last. #ufchat
10:54 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat no. there are some in charge that got it through cunning and back handedness, #ufchat
10:54 pm AnassaRh: Q6a: Depends on indiv. char., but usually pretty capable. Might not have fight training, but can hold his own, eg. #ufchat
10:55 pm UF_Chat: Q8: Are there different kinds of Alphas? If so, describe and/or give examples. #ufchat
10:55 pm simonm223: @rcmurphy I think writing the opposite gender is often one of the harder tasks an author faces. #ufchat
10:55 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat However lots of people translate “alpha” into bad ass, tough guy, meanie, cruel, and out right bully. #ufchat
10:55 pm shadowflame1974: Q7 #UFchat No. Depening on the situation others might be in charge of aspects, but alpha knows what is going on
10:55 pm AnassaRh: I don’t think they need to be supremely dominant (ie. jerk), but need to be assured in their role. #ufchat
10:56 pm UF_Chat: Q8a: Common complaint is the ?metrosexual alpha?-always smells good, dresses well etc along with being tough. Too perfect.Thoughts? #ufchat
10:56 pm simonm223: @UF_Chat Even when they do care for others when they become blinded by circumstance and start acting on darker impulses… #ufchat
10:56 pm rcmurphy: @simonm223 Actually writing females is my weak point. My writing group will agree. I just don’t get how women think sometimes. #UFchat
10:56 pm J_GriffinB: @leapetra indeed, but are they alpha personalities or fakin’ till they make it? #ufchat
10:56 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra A lot of people were saying that at the beginning – is a reason alphas need a good look at by writers now. #ufchat
10:57 pm simonm223: A7: Not always. Absolutes are bad and should be avoided. But they are OFTEN alphas. #ufchat
10:57 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Ex. Bean in Ender’s Shadow, Exley in L.A. Confidential –different type of alphas #ufchat
10:57 pm AnassaRh: Q6b: Never abuse! But I’ve seen dominant, alpha-type characters use it. Bullying, no, but teasing/cajoling, I can see. #ufchat
10:57 pm leatherzebra: @psynde Me too! I don’t like how a lot of authors translate alphas, and the heroine is always attracted to the alpha too. #ufchat
10:57 pm rcmurphy: Q8a: They have to have a flaw. If the inside is as flawless as the outside they are boring. Needs to be a balance to garner interest #UFchat
10:58 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @leatherzebra isn’t there good + bad alphas? both the hero & the villain? 1 is bully/cruel. Other is strong/confident. #ufchat
10:58 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat I’d like to see one with halitosis and bad hair one day. One thing that’s rarely seen in fiction is the alpha homosexual. #ufchat
10:58 pm simonm223: @rcmurphy I haven’t much trouble writing all kinds of different men but I’m not perfectly in touch with my anima at times. #ufchat
10:58 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @AnassaRh sometimes being smart ass adds to his/her charm, tho…but a smart ass isn’t the same as a jerk! #ufchat
10:59 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh ONe of complaints is MC females have (in past) taken abuse as part & parcel of being with alpha. Definite move against now #ufchat
10:59 pm UF_Chat: Q9: What about gay alpha males in mainstream UF. Are there any? Is there room for a gay alpha when the MC is female? #ufchat
10:59 pm HC_Palmquist: @RCMurphy @UF_Chat I’d like to see an alpha male who is nerdy or dresses scuzzy. #UFChat
10:59 pm simonm223: A8a: How many absolutely perfect people do you personally know? Probably not many. A 3d char has flaws. #ufchat
10:59 pm rcmurphy: @J_GriffinB I challenged myself this month & wrote a story starring 2 alpha homosexuals. It can work. #UFchat
11:00 pm rcmurphy: @HC_Palmquist You’d love my William. The man dresses like hell. It’s so cute! #UFchat
11:00 pm AnassaRh: No, not at all! RT @JulieeJohnsonn: @AnassaRh sometimes being smartass adds to charm, tho?but a smart ass isn’t the same as a jerk! #ufchat
11:00 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @J_GriffinB ha! agreed! but if U gave an alpha bad hair + bad breath…wouldn’t be an alpha! tried that 1nc, just not a ‘hero’ type #ufchat
11:00 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy I see it fine in GLBT lit but what about in mainstream? #ufchat
11:00 pm AnassaRh: Man, it’s hard trying to keep up with the #ufchat and answer questions too!
11:00 pm simonm223: @JulieeJohnsonn the villain can be strong and confident too… πŸ˜€ #ufchat
11:01 pm UF_Chat: We’re almost out of time & I have a TON of questions left – getting to betas & other bad boys. Want to continue next week? #ufchat
11:01 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat Mainstream actually needs a dose of gay, in my opinion. We’re so closeted. I would love to see alpha gays. #UFchat
11:01 pm SpiceBites: @J_GriffinB I’m thinking a gay alpha male boardroom shark would be an interesting character #ufchat
11:01 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat I know lots of alphas that are not big, strong outgoing types. They just have smassive personalities that push the psyche #ufchat
11:01 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh No kidding! I rarely catch every comment. #ufchat
11:01 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat alpha has to project he is in control at all times. parcel of the sterotype. He is not going to appear weak, disheveled at time
11:01 pm simonm223: @UF_Chat Margrave Royston…. but the book he turns up in is somewhat of a sausage fest. #ufchat
11:02 pm rcmurphy: J.R. Ward uses homosexuality in her Black Dagger Brotherhood books & was afraid to go on because of possible backlash. #UFchat
11:02 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy How do you think an alpha gay would work with a kick-ass MC female? #ufchat
11:02 pm AnassaRh: Q7: No, alphas aren’t always in charge, but they may want to be, and they probably have a high position at the least. #ufchat
11:02 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Betas next week? πŸ˜€
11:02 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB smassive? I like it! Going to use that word now. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:02 pm AnassaRh: Should alphas be in charge? Depends on the situation, and the alpha. Sometimes other traits may be needed more. #ufchat
11:03 pm SpiceBites: ANother vote for betas next week! #ufchat
11:03 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat It would still be a partnership just like with a straight alpha male. But the romance aspect wouldn’t be there to muss plot #UFchat
11:03 pm UF_Chat: I have a TON of interesting questions we don’t have time for – that’s one vote yes… @shadowflame1974 #ufchat
11:03 pm jimnduncan: Ha! Poor betas got left out, eh? #ufchat
11:03 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat Quite handsomely. He could be a challenge to her sexually too. #ufchat
11:04 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat yes 2 betas next week! Great topic! #ufchat
11:04 pm J_GriffinB: gaywere: look at handsome man. gayheroine: look at the handsome man. Isawhimfirst! #ufchat
11:04 pm jimnduncan: I’m all for a beta chat. #ufchat
11:04 pm rcmurphy: We should continue next week & give the betas their due. They have an important part as well. #UFchat
11:04 pm AnassaRh: Q8: Def different types. Physical alpha, mental alpha. Also assured alpha, who may not be outstanding in any field, but good at many #ufchat
11:04 pm simonm223: If folks have questions about fight related stuff my non-fiction work is almost all #martialarts related, and I’m happy to help btw. #ufchat
11:04 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan I only got half way through my questions.. but offering part 2 next week. #ufchat
11:05 pm SpiceBites: @simonm223 Cool! Thanx πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:05 pm AnassaRh: And good! RT @UF_Chat: ONe of complaints is MC females have taken abuse as part & parcel of being w alpha. Definite move against now #ufchat
11:05 pm shadowflame1974: RT @J_GriffinB: gaywere: look at handsome man.gayheroine: look at the handsome man.Isawhimfirst! #ufchat>> hahaha!
11:05 pm leatherzebra: @JulieeJohnsonn Absolutely. Alphas can be the best thing to happen to someone, or the worst. Kitty & the Midnight Hour=BAD alpha #ufchat
11:05 pm simonm223: RT @rcmurphy: We should continue next week & give the betas their due. They have an important part as well. #UFchat
11:05 pm AnassaRh: Me too! RT @HC_Palmquist: @RCMurphy @UF_Chat I’d like to see an alpha male who is nerdy or dresses scuzzy. #UFChat
11:05 pm psynde: @leatherzebra drives me nuts!! #UFchat
11:05 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB I like that challenge to her sexuality! XLnt! #Ufchat
11:06 pm J_GriffinB: @simonm223 and I can also help, as I have been in many hand to hand street-fights. #ufchat
11:06 pm AnassaRh: Q8a: Well, if metro alpha’s written well, has other flaws, good reasons for being metro? Why not? #ufchat
11:06 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat My ideal alpha is parental, like the tough but loving dad, or the gruff but caring grandpa #ufchat
11:06 pm UF_Chat: OK – it’s decided – betas and more bad boys NEXT WEEK! There’s more to betas than meets the eye.. πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
11:07 pm J_GriffinB: @leatherzebra grey alpha is a blast: Druss The Legend #ufchat
11:07 pm AnassaRh: Continue next week? Yes! And I think I’ll be “live” for that one, too! #ufchat
11:07 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat On a hero level the alpha should be a listener, a decision maker & strong, but not a bully #ufchat
11:07 pm simonm223: @J_GriffinB IBeen in fewer of those but I’ve lost count of the number of controlled fighting situations I’ve been in long, long ago. #ufchat
11:07 pm UF_Chat: Writing fighting? Offers of experienced help here from @J_GriffinB & @simonm223 (also my article tweeted earlier as a primer) #ufchat
11:07 pm JulieeJohnsonn: thanks everyone! great chat! have a great night all! #ufchat
11:08 pm AnassaRh: Q9: Can’t say I’ve read any gay alpha males, but I’ve run into several gay females. Definitely would like to see gay men (any role). #ufchat
11:08 pm rcmurphy: Thank you for an awesome chat @UF_Chat! #UFchat
11:08 pm J_GriffinB: pushes @simonm223 trying to get in front. Mine have all been in the course of my duties, I promise. #ufchat
11:08 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Good alpha weaknesses? Over worrying, over managing the pack, putting the pack above immediate family #ufchat
11:09 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Turns out that what real wolf alphas are like. Packs are almost always families are rarely fight internally physically #ufchat
11:09 pm simonm223: @UF_Chat decent material in your article. Would point out that adrenaline responses can be trained. #ufchat
11:09 pm shadowflame1974: Have a great evening everyone #UFchat
11:09 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat I could even see an alcoholic alpha being interesting, story-wise #ufchat
11:09 pm AnassaRh: Actually, now that I think of it, suspect I may have geeky alpha secondary character. Hmm. #ufchat
11:09 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Thank you! Loved your input. #ufchat
11:09 pm jimnduncan: @leatherzebra that whole listening skill seems to always be a trait needing development, but probably more male than alpha issue. #ufchat
11:10 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat I think that sounds like something I said earlier πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
11:10 pm UF_Chat: That?s a wrap for #UFchat today! Challenging the stereotypes is always interesting. Next week Pt 2 – betas & other bad boys! #ufchat
11:10 pm jimnduncan: Any UF stories out there where heroine’s relationship with hero turns him from beta into alpha? #ufchat
11:10 pm UF_Chat: Some resources on the topic of alpha males and bad boys in UF tweeted next: #ufchat
11:11 pm J_GriffinB: I must apologize for my #routerpain #bloodspoutingfrommyears. #ufchat
11:11 pm AnassaRh: @shadowflame1974 But what if alpha was in a culture where being a snappy dresser would lower opinions? Thinking of geeks here. #ufchat
11:11 pm UF_Chat: AAR Forum discussion ?Gotta Get Away From the Alpha Males!? ? Big discussion on what is alpha & more http://bit.ly/99IgvF #ufchat
11:12 pm leatherzebra: @jimnduncan Yes, but males aren’t the only alphas. Packs always have a dominant female too πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:12 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan Can’t think off-hand though Harry Dresden definitely grows into an alpha, shouldering more responsibility etc #ufchat
11:12 pm UF_Chat: Talechasing Podcast: (audio) from Dragoncon 2008 by @kimidreams Why we love/hate alphas & bad boys http://bit.ly/br4UY7 #ufchat
11:13 pm AnassaRh: RT @leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Good alpha weaknesses? Over worrying, over managing the pack, putting the pack above immediate family #ufchat
11:14 pm J_GriffinB: @leatherzebra yep. #ufchat
11:14 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Also, I’m tired of totally dreamy heroes. How about attractive, but REALLY wonderful personality wise instead? #ufchat
11:14 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Ye -sort of- seems wolf pairs are like male & female sides of an alpha together. Fascinating (I do animal studies too) #ufchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: ?My Uber Alpha Male? by @Abigail_ATUF http://bit.ly/9V5kuz (Personal Note: I consider Spike & Kisten betas though…) #ufchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: Ah, the alpha male. No thanks. by Wendy Palmer http://bit.ly/dslgvn #ufchat
11:16 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Yes – lets make them more solidly real and believable! #ufchat
11:16 pm UF_Chat: Announcement next ? if you want to promote your UF posts, book or anything else UF related now is the time! #ufchat
11:16 pm AnassaRh: Plz! RT @leatherzebra: Also,I’m tired of totally dreamy heroes. How about attractive, but REALLY wonderful personality wise instead? #ufchat
11:17 pm UF_Chat: Got a topic you want to chat about? Let me know! I?ll add it to the list & maybe even bump up the chat-date for it. ? #ufchat
11:18 pm UF_Chat: If you wish to highlight a UF release by an author here on Twitter from the last week let me know & I?ll promote it. Just @inkgypsy #ufchat
11:18 pm UF_Chat: I’m slowly making a list of UF authors on Twitter on blog site. Please suggest more to @inkgypsy (that?s me in regular tweet time) #ufchat
11:18 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Richard in LKH’s book is an example, he started out as strong & responsible, but then fell apart into bad alpha #ufchat
11:18 pm simonm223: Remember that writer’s koan: Perfect is the enemy of good. Perfect characters are BORING and have no room for development. #ufchat
11:19 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Something interesting could be done with this, but it won’t be. #ufchat
11:20 pm UF_Chat: NEXT WEEK: Pt 2 – Alphas, betas, bad boys and other tough stuff in writing UF males. #ufchat
11:20 pm AnassaRh: Attending #UFChat in real time was great! I look forward to attending more?starting next week!
11:21 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra You mean something interesting could be done by LKH but won’t be? I’ve been disappointed for so long now. 😦 #ufchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: RT @simonm223: Remember that writer’s koan: Perfect is the enemy of good. Perfect characters are BORING and have no room for development. #ufchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: @UF_Chat lights out. πŸ˜‰ Transcript available on the #UFchat blog in 36hrs-ish, allowing for late comments. Just use the hashtag. #ufchat
11:22 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Yay! You’re shifts change? #ufchat
11:23 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Your not you’re! Ack – this typo is a recent development. Don’t llike it! #ufchat
11:24 pm inkgypsy: RT @UF_Chat: That?s a wrap for #UFchat today! Challenging the stereotypes is always interesting. Next week Pt 2 – betas & other bad boys! #ufchat
11:24 pm Val_Fiction: RT @UF_Chat: ?My Uber Alpha Male? by @Abigail_ATUF http://bit.ly/9V5kuz (Personal Note: I consider Spike & Kisten betas though…) #ufchat
11:25 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat I wouldn’t deem Dresden as an alpha. He’s too independent. Alpha denotes group dynamics. #ufchat
11:26 pm simonm223: @uf_chat That’s my one big problem with Tolkien: if not for Gollum all the antagonists would be perfect; perfectly evil #ufchat
11:26 pm leatherzebra: @psynde Have you read Rachel Vincent’s Werecat series? many good alpha males there. & some bad ones too #ufchat
11:26 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Think he develops more that way in later books -once he’s a warden, has a protege, looks after Jr wardens etc but yeah #ufchat
11:28 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Exactly. LKH seems to want to make Richard out to be the bad guy, no interest in “rescuing” him. #ufchat
11:28 pm simonm223: RT @UF_Chat: @ He develops more that way in later books -once he’s a warden, has a protege, looks after Jr wardens etc but yeah #ufchat
11:28 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat But souldn’t you see an intervention, pulling Richard away from asshole Anita addict zone and back to Boy scout? #ufchat
11:30 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Honestly didn’t stay with it that long – ended up such a mess I stopped caring. That’s the true failure for me. 😦 #ufchat
11:31 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Strength & power, dislike of taking orders can be taken as alpha traits. but alpha=taking care of others #ufchat
11:32 pm J_GriffinB: I just want to say one thing more: Pheremones. Dead dudes no pheremones. Weres must be shedding em enough to kill the allergic #ufchat
11:32 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Alphas biologically are the best providers in the pack, but strength can be confused for provider. Girls like providers #ufchat
11:33 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Agree – the responsibility thing important – like parent taking responsibility/outside consequences for child’s action #ufchat
11:33 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat He could be worried that she’s using him, or is just a power player herself #ufchat
11:33 pm simonm223: ZOMG ROTFLMFAO!!!!! RT @J_GriffinB: Pheremones. Dead dudes no pheremones. Weres must be shedding em enough to kill the allergic #ufchat
11:35 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Child will get disciplined later if is good parent though Note: discipline does not have to = violence. #ufchat
11:35 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Tough is enduring. Tough is doing what’s right when its not what’s easy. Making the hard choices. #ufchat
11:35 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB Next week! And thanks for the input. πŸ™‚ I’ll bring my extra fighting questions to you if I have any. #ufchat
11:36 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Agree on tough definition. #ufchat
11:36 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Alphas would be the ones to defend the pack against outside packs, and things like abusive non-pack lovers #ufchat
11:36 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Yes! #ufchat
11:36 pm UF_Chat: OK definitely going dark now – my family has been very patient with me hanging out in #UFchat for so long today! #ufchat
11:37 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat And yes, some bullying is acceptable, when it’s not the alpha demanding their way, but the pack mate stand up for itself #ufchat
11:38 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat ie Member has abusive ex. Won’t stand up. Alpha making them stand up for themselves instead of just being defended by alpha #ufchat
11:38 pm simonm223: @leatherzebra I’d prefer characters in fiction to be people and not wild canines. #justsaying #ufchat
11:38 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat …might feel like bullying, but it’s not. #ufchat
11:40 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Metro alpha is a reflection of the times. Used to be that everyone wanted gruff hairy manly men (Burt Renyolds) #ufchat
11:41 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Now everyone wants Ryan Renyolds #ufchat
11:41 pm inkgypsy: @leatherzebra So more the tough love which isn’t bullying at all. Hard necessary lessons. #UFchat
11:45 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra LOL Not everyone (but I know what you mean…) #ufchat
11:47 pm simonm223: @inkygypsy even the “monsters” in our stories should be people. Vamps, weres, pennywises, etc. are reflections of human things. #ufchat.
11:51 pm J_GriffinB: Rolling out another evening of overeating at fine restaruant: Flour+Water. but first: http://www.sfinsf.org/ #scifichat #ufchat
September 12, 2010
12:01 am shadowflame1974: @AnassaRh #UFchat then he would appear appropriately. He just has to have the image of bieing in control πŸ™‚
12:04 am UF_Chat: @simonm223 Agree – my beef is UF often so far into fantasy leaves humans behind. Like UF due to real world influence/base. #ufchat
12:05 am UF_Chat: @simonm223 And yes – monsters should either be human reflections or show us the monsters in ourselves. #ufchat
12:25 am rixshep: @leatherzebra re: alpha=taking care of others, is how it shld be, but corruption of it makes alpha=being on top (pride). #ufchat
12:28 am leatherzebra: @inkgypsy Exactly. #ufchat
12:28 am leatherzebra: And the corruption of the alpha position makes for GREAT story conflict. #ufchat
12:30 am leatherzebra: @UF_Chat I would LOVE to see a gay alpha. I think that they could be naturals at the whole thing. #ufchat
2:39 am tasmin21: Had a good day at Renn Fest today. Missed #UFChat, though. Sorry guys.
3:16 am dystophil: Awww, missed #ufchat today, because um…I was sleeping…
3:31 am rixshep: @leatherzebra Heh! True, good story. But in real life, corrupt alphas are a pain in the …well, you know. πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
8:55 am TheMonsterBlogs: Didn’t make it to #UFChat after all – feel asleep but did have cool nightmare that will probable be UF so not all bad πŸ™‚
8:58 am TheMonsterBlogs: Is there a transcript #ufchat ?
9:36 am Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat Fell asleep before chat again – sigh. #UFchat #ufchat
12:49 pm HP4Writers: RT @simonm223: @inkygypsy even the “monsters” in our stories should be people. Vamps, weres, pennywises, etc. are reflections of human things. #ufchat.
12:50 pm HP4Writers: RT @simonm223: The opposite also holds true though. Even a truly flawed person should have some grain of basic humanity. #ufchat
September 13, 2010
2:08 am inkgypsy: @TheMonsterBlogs Transcript should be up late tonight (barring zombies or apocalypses). #UFchat
5:18 am inkgypsy: Last chance to add comments to the #UFchat transcript! TOPIC: Alpha Males & Bad Boys of UF (Pt 1). Just use the hashtag. πŸ™‚
jolantru: Too many Alpha Males and Bad Boys. I want to see a geek. #UFchat
inkgypsy: @jolantru Geek as love interest? Leader of the pack? MC? Other? #UFchat (& how do you define geek – everyone a little different)

jolantru: @inkgypsy All. *lol* Geek – bookish, not that masculine (no rippling 6 pec). #UFchat

AnassaRh: Can anyone help her? #ufchat RT @silviamg: Can anyone recommend sites/bloggers who review urban fantasy?
TheMonsterBlogs: @inkgypsy Those darstadly zombies – they are always bothering us which is why we have a sword over the fireplace :/ #UFChat – thanks πŸ™‚
inkgypsy: @silviamg UF review sites: All Things Urban Fantasy, SciFi Guy, Dirty Sexy Books, Dark Faerie Tales, Sara’s Urban Fantasy Blog #UFchat
jolantru: RT @inkgypsy: @silviamg UF review sites: All Things Urban Fantasy, SciFi Guy, Dirty Sexy Books, Dark Faerie Tales, Sara’s Urban Fantasy Blog #UFchat

___________________________________

END OF TRANSCRIPT FOR SEPTEMBER 11th, 2010

Next week:

PART TWO: Alphas, Betas, Bad Boys, Heroes & Anti-Heroes in Urban Fantasy

Feel free to add thoughts and resources during the week as you think them or find them – just use the #UFchat hashtag so I can find them and add them to the discussion & transcript.

The β€œPublished UF authors on Twitter” page for the blog (check the link at the very top of the page) is slowly growing (there are a LOT of UF authors on Twitter!) and it’s and linked it to a list on Twitter for easy following.

If you see someone you think should be on there, there’s a good chance I just haven’t gotten to adding them yet BUT please always feel free to add suggestions by @-ing @inkgypsy and I’ll add them to the list ASAP.

Stay tuned to @UF_Chat on Twitter for countdown’s and updates.

See you next week!

Gypsy (@inkgypsy)

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