#UFchat – chat for urban fantasy writers

Archive for September, 2010

Transcript for September 18, 2010: Alpha Males, Beta Boys & Other Bad Boys in UF – PART 2

Today’s Topic is PART TWO: Alphas, betas, bad boys, heroes & anti-heroes – who’s REALLY tough?

Official UFchat questions in YELLOW for easier reading.

Resources/ topic-related links are in BLUE.

Lots of excellent comments and a ton of thoughts this week so is a big one! We went about ten minutes over (with a warning that we just might near the end) and resources were tweeted after that, so if you had to leave at the 1 hour mark you may have missed a few things. There was obviously a lot of room for further discussion too.

If anyone wants to expand their thoughts in a blog post (or essay) in the coming weeks let me know and I’ll promote it. πŸ™‚

Primer for #UFchat early birds: Beta vs Alpha vs Gamma Heroes http://bit.ly/9WjicF

Patti_OShea: RT @inkgypsy: 1/2 hour to #UFchat! The men duke it out today – who’s really tough? Alphas, betas, loners or someone else altogether…? 3pm PST/ 6pm EST
9:28 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: Last day of the day job today and a long awaited return to full time writing (I thought I’d get the shilling done early) #ufchat
9:33 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: #UFchat currently reading UF by Lauren Beukes – Zoo City – recomended.
9:40 pm UF_Chat: @Ben_Aaronovitch I really want to read that! Looks seriously awesome – you have an ARC? Or isit out already? #UFchat
9:41 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat It’s out in the UK #UFchat
9:44 pm UF_Chat: 15 mins to #UFchat! What is an Alpha anyway? Does tough = alpha? What’s a beta? Are our heroes heroic? We’ll find out today! 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
9:44 pm inkgypsy: 15 mins to #UFchat! What is an Alpha anyway? Does tough = alpha? What’s a beta? Are our heroes heroic? We’ll find out today! 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
9:45 pm rcmurphy: @inkgypsy Lmfao found him. He forgot about #UFchat. I think he’s going to try and catch the end.
9:45 pm rcmurphy: RT @UF_Chat: 15 mins to #UFchat! What is an Alpha anyway? Does tough = alpha? What’s a beta? Are our heroes heroic? We’ll find out today! 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
9:59 pm jsmithready: Hello to #UFchat! I can only stay until the DH arrives with pizza, in 10-15 minutes. Then we’re watching SERENITY.
9:59 pm UF_Chat: 3, 2… and we are now live with #UFchat! What is an Alpha? A beta? Does tough = alpha? Are our heroes heroic? We?ll find out today! #UFchat
10:00 pm AnassaRh: Here and ready for #ufchat!
10:00 pm StephanieLMcGee: Hey all! I made it! Woot! #UFCHat
10:00 pm UF_Chat: @jsmithready *waves* Great to see you! Did you consciously figure out hierarchies when planning your vamps? #UFchat
10:00 pm Cameron_Haley: Hi, all! #UFchat
10:01 pm UF_Chat: TODAY?S TOPIC: Beta males, loners, bad boys & other UF males take on the Alphas ? let?s talk tough ? guy style (Part 2) #UFchat
10:01 pm rbwood: #UFChat finally made it!
10:01 pm UF_Chat: Hi all! @AnassaRh @StephanieLMcGee #UFchat
10:01 pm AlyxDellamonica: #UFchat Hello, everyone!
10:02 pm jsmithready: @UF_Chat Hierarchies? No, not really. My vamps are communal bc they have to be to survive. Older ones are physically stronger, tho. #UFchat
10:02 pm rcmurphy: My ass-kicking boots have been replaced with cow slippers today. Hope no one minds. lol #UFchat
10:02 pm UF_Chat: @Cameron_Haley Hi! Congrats on the release (1st time seeing you live since sorry) – you’re prob knee deep in the next bk, yes? #UFchat
10:02 pm UF_Chat: @AlyxDellamonica Hi! Great to see you! We’re part 2 of alphas & betas today but we’ll cover more too. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:03 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Cow kicking can be dangerous… πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
10:03 pm jsmithready: @UF_Chat Then again, older ones are also, um, mentally challenged. So leaders tend to be middle-aged, LOL. PS Thx for the greeting! #UFchat
10:03 pm rbwood: @RCMurphy #UFChat Oooo. Alpha to Beta in one tweet! πŸ™‚
10:03 pm jsmithready: @Cameron_Haley Hey, congrats on the release! #UFchat
10:03 pm rcmurphy: @rbwood I’m good like that. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
10:03 pm Cameron_Haley: @UF_Chat Thanks! Knee deep in line edits on Book 2, actually. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:04 pm UF_Chat: @jsmithready Does stronger = in charge – ie muscle = power? #UFchat
10:04 pm kjhatch: Hello #UFChat! I hope everyone’s having a good day today
10:04 pm Cameron_Haley: @jsmithready Thank you so much! It’s very exciting! #UFchat
10:04 pm UF_Chat: @Cameron_Haley That’s one of the questions – alpha females – some people DO discuss alpha females actually… #UFchat
10:04 pm UF_Chat: 2 quick recap questions to get us going: #UFchat #UFchat
10:04 pm elizabethkarr: Hey there, everyone. #UFchat
10:05 pm rbwood: @Cameron_Haley #UFchat. Absolutely! In the Dresden files, Murphy is an Alpha female to Harry’s Beta (Apha wannabe). πŸ™‚
10:05 pm StephanieLMcGee: A friend of mine and I once thought to write a story where the sidekick gets the girl, not the hero. Can that even happen? #UFCHat
10:05 pm jsmithready: @UF_Chat If it’s a physical battle, yes. But leadership is more than physicality. Also personality and mental stability. #UFchat
10:05 pm UF_Chat: QA: Last week gen. agreed UF Alphas need revisit. Let?s have another look @ definitions. Describe ?alpha? (guy/girl) – esp. re UF. #UFchat
10:05 pm AlyxDellamonica: Is listening to The Beautiful South and checking out #UFchat.
10:06 pm DEcharacters: @StephanieLMcGee that sounds like a good idea. sidekicks need love too #UFchat
10:06 pm jsmithready: @UF_Chat Love the alpha female! & Murphy a great example. @rbwood #UFchat
10:06 pm Polenth: I generally find alpha males too arrogant/dominating to identify with. #UFchat
10:06 pm Jinxie_G: RT @UF_Chat: 3, 2… and we are now live with #UFchat! What is an Alpha? A beta? Does tough = alpha? Are our heroes heroic? We?ll find out today! #UFchat
10:06 pm Jinxie_G: RT @UF_Chat: TODAY?S TOPIC: Beta males, loners, bad boys & other UF males take on the Alphas ? let?s talk tough ? guy style (Part 2) #UFchat
10:06 pm sirayn: @Cameron_Haley perhaps UF is so dominated by female readers + writers that male characters are the “other” to an extent. #UFchat
10:06 pm StephanieLMcGee: @DEcharacters It was after watching Sahara and Al tells Dirk he’ll take care of the bomb and for Dirk to get the girl. Good friend. #UFCHat
10:06 pm jsmithready: @UF_Chat Define how it should be or how it usually is? #UFchat
10:07 pm annikkawoods: RT @Polenth: I generally find alpha males too arrogant/dominating to identify with.<—THIS. So much this. #UFchat
10:07 pm MonicaEPierce: Hi All, thought I’d stop in and check out #UFchat.
10:07 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @StephanieLMcGee Big Trouble In Little China & Lord of the Rings #UFCHat
10:07 pm UF_Chat: @jsmithready So stability is important to your guys – because your vamps have the problem of ‘fading’? #UFchat
10:07 pm StephanieLMcGee: RT @annikkawoods: RT @Polenth: I generally find alpha males too arrogant/dominating to identify with.<—THIS. So much this. #UFCHat
10:07 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat alpha is top dog, smart, strong, disguises weakness under gruff char. Usually has something/one to protect
10:07 pm AlyxDellamonica: @StephanieLMcGee Sure, why not? Lots of possible reasons could keep Alpha for getting the love interest. #UFchat
10:07 pm jsmithready: YES. RT @annikkawoods: RT @Polenth: I generally find alpha males too arrogant/dominating to identify with.<—THIS. So much this. #UFchat
10:07 pm sirayn: on the subj of alpha males in UF, just read r vincent’s stray, in which female protag systematically dominated by men around her. #UFchat
10:08 pm sirayn: #UFchat which is a big deal for me when men in question are supposed to be sympathetic – father, love interest, brothers, etc.
10:08 pm rbwood: #UFChat Alpha characters need beta traits to keep it interesting. Male and Female.
10:08 pm elizabethkarr: @rcmurphy We need your kinda alpha males IRL. alpha females 2. #UFchat
10:08 pm sirayn: #UFchat male characters who isolate female protag, threaten her, undermine her, limit her ambitions, etc = major turnoff for me.
10:09 pm StephanieLMcGee: @AlyxDellamonica This is true. I hadn’t thought of Sam and Rosie. Or Aragorn and Arwen (when you look @ appendices or movie). THx. #UFCHat
10:09 pm rcmurphy: We did cover Alpha males being jerks last week. It is a stereotype that was agreed needs to be abolished. Asshats- not sexy, folks #UFchat
10:09 pm elizabethkarr: RT @AnassaRh: QA: Alphas are in charge, confident, act masculine regardless of gender. Good leaders. < yeah. #UFchat
10:09 pm kjhatch: To me an an alpha character is simply one that is given top-respect by its peers. There can me multiple alphas with multiple groups #UFChat
10:09 pm jsmithready: @UF_Chat Stability = survival, which = getting food + not being discovered, i.e., staked. Fading def a consideration, though.#UFchat
10:09 pm StephanieLMcGee: @sirayn So agree with that. #UFCHat
10:10 pm sirayn: #UFchat it’s difficult to like male characters who literally lock the female lead in a cage until she conforms to expected wife/mother role.
10:10 pm UF_Chat: Agree people unconscious. seem 2 want RT @rbwood: #UFChat Alpha characters need beta traits to keep it interesting. Male & Female. #UFchat
10:10 pm UF_Chat: QB: Did anyone blog on urban fantasy alpha males or related topics this week? Please share & link now. #UFchat
10:10 pm sirayn: #UFchat I feel like these characters are presented/intended as alpha males, but in fact come off as misogynist in the extreme.
10:10 pm QTGamer86: RT @UF_Chat – QB: Did anyone blog on urban fantasy alpha males or related topics this week? Please share & link now. #UFchat
10:10 pm UF_Chat: Since continuing last weeks discussion of Alphas, betas and other bad boys, Question numbering will now continue from last Q. #UFchat
10:10 pm Polenth: @UF_Chat I don’t think a good leader in RL is arrogant or dominating either… RL leaders are firm, but they listen and delegate. #UFchat
10:11 pm rbwood: @RCMurphy Agreed. I Love Alpha male asshats who are beaten by Alpha women. Awesome. #ufchat
10:11 pm kjhatch: I don’t see the alpha role as a result of physical strength or political leadership; it’s an acknowledgment from others #UFChat
10:11 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @sirayn Agree! I wouldn’t read that at all. I gravitate to the strong female leads… #ufchat
10:11 pm jsmithready: Personally I find the idea that alpha = bully so frustrating. An alpha should not have to resort to that. Should lead by example. #UFchat
10:11 pm sirayn: #UFchat which imo is a frequent problem with alpha males – can an alpha male be alpha without dominating (oppressing) the female character?
10:11 pm UF_Chat: Reminder – S = statement & will be followed by a related ‘Q’ = question . πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:11 pm DEcharacters: at some point, i’m going to do a theme week about alphas and betas. seems a useful topic #UFchat
10:11 pm UF_Chat: S: Discussed alphas, incl. metrosexual, possibilities for gay alphas & a bit on betas -let?s look at other boys & compare/contrast. #UFchat
10:12 pm UF_Chat: Q10: Other than betas what kinds of other males are often used as characters in UF? #UFchat
10:12 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @kjhatch yes, its also a mindset…a confidence, ability to govern & lead, do what needs to be done, etc…#ufchat
10:12 pm StephanieLMcGee: Read 3rd quote down. (Scroll downward a tad to see the quotes section.) It’s the last character speech. http://tinyurl.com/29ko7p7 #UFCHat
10:13 pm GraylinFox: sticking my head into #UFChat !!
10:13 pm kjhatch: Basically a guy can’t just walk in and say he’s the new alpha in town; the locals have to agree/step down #UFChat
10:13 pm AlyxDellamonica: @Polenth Agree. It takes more strength of character to listen and/or admit mistakes than it does to boss people around. #UFchat.
10:13 pm JulieeJohnsonn: the best alphas are ‘reluctant heros’ in my opinion…makes them a little less of a stereotype #ufchat
10:13 pm UF_Chat: @DEcharacters Agreed – that would be great – lots of questions and gray areas in this one. Please let me know when you do @inkgypsy #UFchat
10:13 pm annikkawoods: @jsmithready I agree with you, but so many of the male leads in UF seem to be bullies. #UFchat
10:13 pm sirayn: #UFchat or to rephrase, can people perceive a male character as alpha *unless* he dominates women? is gender dynamic necessary?
10:14 pm UF_Chat: @StephanieLMcGee What is the quote about? #UFchat
10:14 pm StephanieLMcGee: RE: Q10 There’s the mentor. #UFCHat
10:14 pm StephanieLMcGee: @UF_Chat It’s a quote from the TV show Bones about anthropology’s view on alpha male. #UFCHat
10:14 pm rbwood: @UF_Chat Q10 Answer-Comidy relief, Mentor (former Alpha), Side kick…#UFchat
10:15 pm shadowflame1974: @annikkawoods Maybe they don’t know how to handle strong fem. Prot. πŸ˜‰ rely on old tactics to bring her/him into wanted role #UFchat
10:15 pm UF_Chat: Q10: (rephrase) So other than alphas & betas (2B discussed) what kinds of other males are typically fully fleshed characters in UF? #UFchat
10:15 pm MargoWest: @sirayn #UFchat I think domination is part of an alpha character, but it can be dominating men instead of women.Showing leadership basically
10:15 pm UF_Chat: @StephanieLMcGee Oh xlnt thanks! #UFchat
10:16 pm AnassaRh: Q10: There’s the geek. Rarely learn much about him beyond “good with research for hero”. #ufchat
10:16 pm AlyxDellamonica: #UFchat I don’t think we have to automatically make a male character choose between misogyny and wimpdom.
10:16 pm SpiceBites: Hi all! Are we doing betas today? #ufchat
10:16 pm MishaPolonsky: Cheers everyone. New to #ufchat – catching up on posts right now.
10:16 pm rcmurphy: Often there is a father figure. Possibly a previous alpha that has settled down. New one is techo-wizards. Not nerds we saw before #UFchat
10:16 pm DEcharacters: it’s a guess, but since it was in the overall topic for today. Q10 – the loner? #UFchat
10:16 pm sirayn: #UFchat another interesting quality I’ve noticed is violence + sadism. alpha males often hyperviolent, + sometimes they torture people.
10:17 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh The computer genius back-up? #UFchat
10:17 pm GraylinFox: RT @UF_Chat: Q10: So other than alphas & betas (2B dis.) what kinds of other males are typically fully fleshed characters in UF? #UFchat
10:17 pm Carlsmilz: RT @jsmithready: Personally I find the idea that alpha = bully so frustrating. An alpha should not have to resort to that. Should lead by example. #UFchat
10:17 pm UF_Chat: Q10a: Anyone ever seen an ?omega male? ? bottom of totem pole ? used as a fully fleshed character in UF? Thoughts? #UFchat
10:17 pm AnassaRh: Absolutely! RT @AlyxDellamonica: #UFchat I don’t think we have to automatically make a male character choose between misogyny and wimpdom.
10:17 pm sirayn: #UFchat look at bones in night huntress series, most male characters in vincent’s stray, etc.
10:17 pm kjhatch: @jsmithready alpha = bully is also such a cheap stereotype. Not all people in power beat or manipulate others to get there. #UFChat
10:17 pm Cameron_Haley: Struggling: This discussion makes it sound as though char relationships in UF are all about domination and power. Maybe I’m naive. #UFchat
10:17 pm rbwood: RT @AlyxDellamonica #UFchat I don’t think we…make a male character choose between misogyny and wimpdom. <-Shades of gray makes a character
10:17 pm lccarson: RT @AlyxDellamonica: #UFchat I don’t think we have to automatically make a male character choose between misogyny and wimpdom.
10:17 pm sirayn: #UFchat many seem to think that their darker side makes them unclean, unworthy of the female lead, + must be hidden.
10:17 pm AnassaRh: I think we occasionally get “annoying, nosy neighbour” types too, don’t we? #ufchat
10:18 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Also known as uber-alpha in some series (well not specifically but essnetially treated as same) – xpt uber not ‘retired’. #UFchat
10:18 pm jsmithready: Arrgh, sorry, have to go! Pizza and husband will wait for no #UFchat to end. 😦 Will be out of town the next 2 Saturday nights.
10:18 pm GraylinFox: RT @UF_Chat: Q10a: Anyone ever seen an ?omega male? ? bottom of totem pole ? used as a fully fleshed character in UF? Thoughts? #UFchat
10:18 pm rcmurphy: Omega males would probably run more towards junkies and that sort. (in my mind) I’ve seen a couple flourish in UF. #UFchat
10:19 pm sirayn: #UFchat which plays off stereotype of delicate woman who faints at the sight of blood, regardless of what female lead is actually like …
10:19 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Omega female on occasion but not much of a male fully fleshed out. Q10a
10:19 pm rbwood: @UF_Chat #UFchat 10a Answer – Neville Longbottom…Know it’s not UF, more YA but he is a perfect example of a Omega…until the end.
10:19 pm UF_Chat: @Cameron_Haley Part of the reason we’re discussing -not easy to make well rounded leader w/out cookie cutter or boring perfection #UFchat
10:19 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat Q10: Magic Negro character turns up quite alot (not always black) #UFchat
10:19 pm DEcharacters: might use an omega male in a story, if I can put up with a love triangle element in a story. but don’t know of published ones #UFchat
10:19 pm SpiceBites: RT @JulieeJohnsonn: the best alphas are reluctant heros in my opinion…makes them a little less of a stereotype #ufchat
10:19 pm StephanieLMcGee: @UF_Chat You’re welcome. Don’t know how accurate the info is, but the show does have an anthropologist as consultant. #UFCHat
10:19 pm AnassaRh: Or the guy with the library, or the guy who invents weapons. RT @UF_Chat: @AnassaRh The computer genius back-up? #UFchat
10:19 pm UF_Chat: S: By definition alphas are not alone – they shoulder responsibility for those under them, in their care. They?re not ?lone wolves?. #UFchat
10:20 pm AnassaRh: @Cameron_Haley I think that’s one way of reading rltnships, and certainly common. But no, not all, not by long shot. #ufchat
10:20 pm SpiceBites: Patricia Brigg’s Samuel in the Mercy series doesn’t read like a strict Alpha to me #ufchat
10:20 pm sirayn: @MargoWest #ufchat personally, I find alpha males much more impressive when smart/canny enough to *avoid* pointless pissing contests.
10:20 pm UF_Chat: BTW interesting theory on omegas – bottom of totem pole but also balances out pack too. P. Briggs exploring idea in current series #UFchat
10:20 pm StephanieLMcGee: If you look at the animal kingdom, the alpha male is the one who leads. He’s in charge of the protection of the herd/pack. #UFCHat
10:21 pm Polenth: @Cameron_Haley I don’t think they should be all about power, but dominating alpha is a common trope. Esp. if there’s heavy romance. #UFchat
10:21 pm UF_Chat: @SpiceBites Yes – he’s more the loner – which is Q11. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat

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10:21 pm StephanieLMcGee: RE Q11: Look @ Jacob from Twilight. He goes off on his own as his own alpha, but has to come back and work w/ pack to lead. #UFCHat
10:21 pm sirayn: @JulieeJohnsonn I love strong female leads! any recommendations? I’m newish to UF, only discovered it recently. #ufchat
10:21 pm AlyxDellamonica: #UFchat Other UF types: BFF with unrequited crush on heroine. Creepy shopkeeper. Intolerant bully. Sensitive victim gothboy.
10:22 pm kjhatch: @UF_Chat A10: With female protagonists there’s the (boy)friend who competes with the Alpha for the protagonist’s love. #UFChat
10:22 pm rbwood: @UF_Chat #UFchat S: (A to Q11): Alpha ia a leader. Lone Wolf can’t handle that responsibility.
10:22 pm rcmurphy: Alpha is a social term given by the “pack”. A lone wolf declares himself alpha & must only worry about coving his own ass. #UFchat
10:22 pm SpiceBites: RT@MargoWest personally, I find alpha males much more impressive when smart/canny enough to *avoid* pointless pissing contests. Yes! #ufchat
10:22 pm moonsanity: @UF_Chat A lone wolf is just that– lone, not responsible for the protection others; just himself or herself. #UFchat
10:23 pm UF_Chat: Q11a: How does a ?real? alpha rely on his betas/pack/pride/group he?s responsible for? #UFchat
10:23 pm ShadowPhoenix32: i think alphas as reluctant heroes is way overdone lately. why not have an alpha that wants to be the hero, but always screws up? #UFChat
10:23 pm JulieeJohnsonn: it certainly is a challenge to work with these tropes and not make them all the same…but if you go to far, you’ve left the genre! #ufchat
10:23 pm StephanieLMcGee: @ShadowPhoenix32 That’d be interesting. #UFCHat
10:23 pm kjhatch: A10: The teacher/scientist/wiseman character who is usually just around to provide info/insight as needed. #UFChat
10:24 pm UF_Chat: @AlyxDellamonica Interesting – all loner types – isolated. Wonder if beyond leader, 2nd command, bottom pack members explored much. #UFchat
10:24 pm rcmurphy: A good leader knows how to delegate. Shouldering all of the responsibility would severely shorten his lifespan. #UFchat
10:24 pm UF_Chat: @JulieeJohnsonn Good point re leaving the genre – it’s a challenge for the writer – that’s for sure. (Xlnt!) #UFchat
10:24 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Q11: Bran, again in PB’s series, only uses violence as last resort…but ppl know he will if he needs to #ufchat
10:24 pm sirayn: @Cameron_Haley many UFs are so loaded with gender/power weirdness that I would struggle to discuss UF w/o referencing power. #UFchat
10:24 pm Cameron_Haley: A11a: Presumably a “real alpha” issues orders to his pack/group and chews some ass if they aren’t followed. #UFchat
10:24 pm MonicaEPierce: @JulieeJohnsonn Seems to me the best books of the genre move beyond these tropes. #UFchat
10:25 pm UF_Chat: RT @JulieeJohnsonn: it certainly is a challenge to work with these tropes and not make them all the same…but if you go to far, you’ve left the genre! #ufchat
10:25 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @sirayn currently reading Carrie Vaughn’s Kitty series…can’t get enough of them right now! gotta go back to the library 4 more πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:25 pm SpiceBites: So loners would be reluctant heroes? #ufchat
10:25 pm Journeymouse: @ShadowPhoenix32 IRL, an alpha wouldn’t be reluctant – they want power. A beta would be a more honest choice of reluctant hero #UFchat
10:26 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Q11a Alpha must delegate issues, jobs to the rest of the pack. Cannot and should not do all alone. Gives pack sense of community.
10:26 pm sirayn: @Cameron_Haley UF allows for exaggeration of traditional gender roles, making male lead insanely strong, hyperprotective, etc. #UFchat
10:26 pm UF_Chat: @SpiceBites Bran – Marrok (sp?) – is one of the very interesting UF characters to me – esp in short stories where more explored #UFchat
10:26 pm Cameron_Haley: @sirayn I hear you…I suppose all the categorizing is one way to get beyond the weirdness. #UFchat
10:26 pm sirayn: @Cameron_Haley I rarely encounter UF heroines who are half as powered-up as their male counterparts. #UFchat
10:26 pm AnassaRh: Q11a: Alphas know everyone’s strengths, will delegate and form teams based on them. Know how to get X to unconsciously control Y. #ufchat
10:26 pm kjhatch: @JulieeJohnsonn What about a person having good leadership qualities but for some reason not treated as leader; still an alpha? #ufchat
10:27 pm UF_Chat: Q12: What part do Betas play? #UFchat
10:27 pm MonicaEPierce: @JulieeJohnsonn Move beyond the tropes and you begin to find craft. Those are the books I want to read and write. #UFchat
10:27 pm Cameron_Haley: @sirayn Read MOB RULES! :))) #UFchat
10:27 pm UF_Chat: Q13: What?s the definition of a Beta and what are the key differences between Alphas & Betas? #UFchat
10:27 pm SpiceBites: @shadowflame1974 The hero in Ilona Andrews’ Magic series does delegation very well #ufchat
10:28 pm DEcharacters: I would think that the alpha knows he can’t do everything himself, that it takes more than one to get the job done, so to speak #UFchat
10:28 pm annikkawoods: RT @MonicaEPierce Move beyond the tropes and you begin to find craft. Those are the books I want to read and write. <–Exactly. #UFchat
10:28 pm sirayn: @Cameron_Haley I’ve wanted to ever since I read the first chapter on #absolutewrite! but I’m so cheap + broke! must wait #UFchat
10:28 pm Cameron_Haley: A13: Sounds like alphas dominate others in the group, while betas are dominated. #UFchat
10:28 pm sirayn: just thought of an exception to my comment that UF heroines are always underpowered compared to male leads: Buffy. #UFchat
10:28 pm StephanieLMcGee: RE Q11 I think one way you can look at it is that the beta can evolve into either his own alpha or the alpha’s second-in-charge. #UFCHat
10:29 pm AlyxDellamonica: @sirayn It’s Buffy syndrome: create a kick ass woman & then to feel like she must need a man who’s not just equal but greater. #UFchat
10:29 pm UF_Chat: @SpiceBites I like that lion-like guy Curran – he does some interesting pack/leader things I really appreciate the exploration. #UFchat
10:29 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Yes, I ❀ PB’s uf stories…some really cool ideas, getting away from tropes #ufchat
10:29 pm shadowflame1974: Q13 #UFchat Betas are the # 2 man. They are the alpha’s back up. often seen as muscle. Maybe comfortable with leadership but not want it.
10:29 pm ShadowPhoenix32: @DEcharacters i agree. being alpha is about trusting your pack, and letting them know they can trust you #UFChat
10:29 pm DEcharacters: the beta can be part of the foundation of the group, it takes more than a leader to have a pack #UFchat
10:30 pm Cameron_Haley: @sirayn When cheap/broke, support your local library! πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:30 pm rcmurphy: RT TheRealMrByrd: An alpha depends on his pack for that family dynamic. Like that support behind him. It’s the reason he is alpha. #UFchat
10:30 pm GraylinFox: RT @UF_Chat: Q13: What?s the definition of a Beta and what are the key differences between Alphas & Betas? #UFchat
10:30 pm UF_Chat: @Cameron_Haley I see different kinds of betas though – runner-ups/wannabes, 2nd in command – leaders who defer to Fem MC more. #UFchat
10:30 pm moonsanity: @kjhatch I think there is supernatural element to being an alpha, if they don’t have it, then they can’t be alpha to the pack. #ufchat
10:30 pm MonicaEPierce: Can’t the roles be in flux? Do we really need rigid definition? I prefer to see characters challenging each others’ roles. = growth #UFchat
10:30 pm sirayn: @AlyxDellamonica I love that comment – so telling. as if a heroine could never be satisfied with a mere equal. #UFchat
10:30 pm UF_Chat: Q13a: Can you give some examples of beta males in UF? #UFchat
10:30 pm rcmurphy: Reposting for a friend. He’s having issues. lmfao #UFchat
10:30 pm SpiceBites: OK, u guys & gals r inspiring me to create a beta readers can fall in love with πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:30 pm shadowflame1974: #ufchat good alpha/beta relationship is crustal to the group. if not, then there will be issues of who to follow.
10:31 pm AnassaRh: I see human betas as pacifiers, introspective, calm, quiet, etc. People who ‘get’ people but don’t lead them. #ufchat
10:31 pm ruthbeingruth: @AnassaRh I like the way @gailcarriger handles Betas. Someone may be a fantastic Beta & never an Alpha…and that’s ok. #ufchat
10:31 pm sirayn: @AlyxDellamonica I always assumed authors felt a male lead couldn’t believably be content except w/ a weaker woman. #UFchat
10:32 pm AnassaRh: I’d call early Xander Harris a beta, for instance. #ufchat
10:32 pm ShadowPhoenix32: i absolutely agree RT @DEcharacters the beta can be part of the foundation of the group, it takes more than a leader to have a pack #UFchat
10:32 pm jflamingo2: Q13 #UFchat Possibly, Betas are thought of as the sidekick.
10:32 pm JulieeJohnsonn: Betas = the smart adviser to the alpha. The one who provides a ‘cooler head’. Gives direction, guidance, supports rather than leads #ufchat
10:32 pm MonicaEPierce: @shadowflame1974 But issues of who to follow lead to interesting challenges for the characters & readers. #UFchat
10:32 pm sirayn: @MargoWest I’ve always wanted to read the vlad taltos books – keep coming across them on #tvtropes. thanks for rec! #UFchat
10:32 pm moonsanity: Q13 #UFchat I think a beta makes the choice to serve under his/her alpha or leave to find their own pack…or challenge.
10:33 pm AnassaRh: And yes, betas can be reluctant heros (step in when alpha gone) but not all will take the role. #ufchat
10:33 pm shadowflame1974: @MonicaEPierce #UFchat Yep, it depends on what kind of relationship you want in the story.
10:34 pm UF_Chat: Q13b: Betas often portrayed as ambitious 2nds. What happens when a beta male usurps the alpha ? is he automatically Alpha then? #UFchat
10:34 pm annikkawoods: Q13 Betas are there to support the Alpha, and to clean up the mess when he/she is done. They’re there to be best friend & confidante #UFchat
10:34 pm sirayn: @JulieeJohnsonn thanks for rec! heard good things abt carrie vaughn. there’s so much UF to read, I get a little dizzy. #UFchat
10:34 pm theworldamongus: @UF_Chat I hate to say this, but, Jacob Black, in Twilight, starts as a Beta Male if I am not mistaken #UFChat
10:34 pm AnassaRh: And yes, betas are back-up, but only if paired with an alpha. Betas would back-up alpha female, be supportive. #ufchat
10:34 pm AlyxDellamonica: @sirayn Now you’ve got me thinking about how we construct romantic pairings! #UFchat
10:34 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @ruthbeingruth That’s who I was thinking of 2! @gailcarriger Her beta has his own strengths to support the alpha. His own appeal 2! #ufchat
10:35 pm AnassaRh: RT @UF_Chat: @Cameron_Haley I see different kinds of betas though – runner-ups/wannabes, 2nd in command – leaders who defer to Fem MC more. #UFchat
10:35 pm theworldamongus: @UF_Chat I think that all depends on the character and the story. if it’s in the characters family blood, then yes, #ufchat
10:35 pm UF_Chat: Q13c: What about ‘retired alphas’? Imagine a pack of retired alphas (eg dinner with group of ex-Presidents) how would that function? #UFchat
10:35 pm MonicaEPierce: @shadowflame1974 True. Guess I want the challenging ones. LOL! #UFchat
10:36 pm SpiceBites: @ruthbeingruth Me too! Gail Carriger does a great job with betas πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:36 pm annikkawoods: Q13b it all depends on the beta’s personality. Q13c That would be interesting, but I personally don’t think Alphas ever retire. #UFchat
10:36 pm AnassaRh: Kat Richardson’s Quinton is a beta. Also, interestingly, the tech guy. And of course, Gail Carriger’s Prof. Lyall. #ufchat
10:37 pm AlyxDellamonica: #ufchat Other times the Beta’s roll is to be enforcer or bad cop, draw flak from the boss.
10:37 pm rcmurphy: “Retired” Alphas do not become Betas. They are held in a higher esteem unless they disgrace the Alpha title. #UFchat
10:37 pm shadowflame1974: @MonicaEPierce #UFchat sometimes the most challenging ones are two strong males who want to get along πŸ˜‰ and don’t always see eye 2 eye
10:37 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Pack of retired alphas…reminds me of the upcoming movie RED about ret secret agents πŸ˜› #ufchat
10:37 pm AnassaRh: Yes! RT @ruthbeingruth: I like the way @gailcarriger handles Betas. Someone may be a fantastic Beta & never an Alpha?and that’s ok. #ufchat
10:38 pm shadowflame1974: @annikkawoods #UFchat I agree. They might step up to another function but never step down.
10:38 pm sirayn: @AlyxDellamonica glad I could prompt thought! lots of cultural attitudes + assumptions (many discomforting) are reflected in UF. #UFchat
10:38 pm annikkawoods: @AnassaRh I like Quinton. He’s a good example of a beta who doesn’t WANT to lead. But he’ll take the lead if he needs to esp. w/tech #UFchat
10:38 pm simonm223: Popping in a bit late. Q13c: Not necessarily. It is more about what drives them than what they do. #ufchat
10:38 pm GraylinFox: I’ve never written a character with Alpha, Beta, or Omega in mind. Just wrote them they way it flowed. #UFChat
10:38 pm UF_Chat: Beta boys in UF: Spike from Buffy & Kisten in Rachel Morgan series. both very powerful but somehow not quite alpha. Xlnt characs. #UFchat
10:38 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat ha! re: dinner. They’re all fighting over who gives the 1st toast! alpha is a personality…don’t ‘retire’ it! #ufchat
10:38 pm SpiceBites: I think some Beta personality is confident enough not to need power #ufchat
10:39 pm AnassaRh: RT @rcmurphy: “Retired” Alphas do not become Betas. They are held in a higher esteem unless they disgrace the Alpha title. #UFchat
10:39 pm UF_Chat: Q14: Are there characters you can think of who evolve into Alphas? #UFchat
10:39 pm sirayn: @AlyxDellamonica sometimes I wish for more “non-issue books”, in which real-world baggage is deliberately left behind. #UFchat
10:39 pm GraylinFox: Both made my heart go pitter pat. RT @UF_Chat: Beta boys in UF: Spike from Buffy & Kisten in Rachel Morgan series. #UFchat
10:39 pm annikkawoods: @GraylinFox That’s how I’ve always done it too. However they fall out is the play by play between the characters. #UFchat
10:39 pm simonm223: RT @GraylinFox: I’ve never written a character with Alpha, Beta, or Omega in mind. Just wrote them they way it flowed. #UFChat
10:39 pm sirayn: @AlyxDellamonica I imagine a happy world in which the male lead isn’t automatically a player and the female a virgin, for example. #UFchat
10:39 pm kjhatch: A11a: A ‘real’ alpha should look after his betas/pack/pride/group, keep them safe; can’t be an alpha alone. #UFchat
10:40 pm UF_Chat: Q15: Do you think names are ever a clue as to whether a character is truly Alpha or a beta (or another kind of male altogether)? #UFchat
10:40 pm AlyxDellamonica: @sirayn I’m all big with gender issues and ecofantasy, so no help there. The dynamics sit so deep within us, inescapable I suspect. #UFchat
10:41 pm UF_Chat: Q15a: Can you give some name examples of what would NOT be Alpha? #UFchat
10:41 pm AnassaRh: Q13b: I think he has to be recognized as alpha by the group. Until then, he’s just a usurper and will have trouble keeping control. #ufchat
10:41 pm MonicaEPierce: RT @GraylinFox: Ive never written a character with Alpha, Beta, or Omega in mind. …<< Yes. I want *real* people. #UFchat
10:41 pm simonm223: @sirayn See I don’t want my stories to be pure escapism. It’s important that literature try to communicate sth abt human experience #ufchat
10:41 pm kjhatch: A12: Betas can be anything from alpha-supporters to scheming usurpers. #ufchat
10:42 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat I’m thinking of Ben in C.Vaughn’s Kitty books…he’s a beta 2 Kitty at first, then becomes alpha as he co-leads Denver pack #ufchat
10:42 pm SpiceBites: Q15 JR Ward’s characters and Sherrilyn Kenyon’s character names jump to mind #ufchat
10:42 pm AnassaRh: Q13c I think it would probably head into pissing contest territory, like the stereotypes of jocks. I’m better. No, I’m better. #ufchat
10:42 pm MargoWest: @sirayn The female leads in the Taltos series are also in no way underpowered compared to the men #UFchat
10:42 pm kjhatch: A13: Beta is simply an alpha-class character that’s not currently in charge of that group. #ufchat #therecanbeonlyone
10:42 pm UF_Chat: I would chime in w I think different types of leaders/structures needed according to crisis too. Wars/disasters big testing ground #UFchat
10:42 pm rcmurphy: I have a wall of names for my 3 novels. I just realized most of them are Alpha names. More feminine names are generally Beta, though #UFchat
10:43 pm AnassaRh: Q13c: But it probably depends on how the alphas retire. If they head into mentor role, there’d be a different dynamic. #ufchat
10:43 pm sirayn: @simonm223 while I like pure escapism, I feel you can communicate sth abt human exp WITHOUT reinforcing oppressive gender roles. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
10:43 pm UF_Chat: And don’t forget the alphas-in-training – not always a YA subject BTW – would like to see it beyond the young up-&-comer. #UFchat
10:44 pm MonicaEPierce: @rcmurphy But what about dominant female characters? Do yours have ‘masculine’ names? #UFchat
10:44 pm Polenth: Q15: Omegas sometimes have silly/quirky names to set them apart. Neville in Harry Potter. #UFchat
10:44 pm sirayn: @AlyxDellamonica inescapable, I agree. I often catch myself doing exact same dubious gender stuff I complain abt in other writers. #UFchat
10:44 pm UF_Chat: Q16: What are some traits considered to be ?Beta? as opposed to Alpha? (physical, emotional etc) #UFchat
10:44 pm SpiceBites: Jeanine Frost’s Bones — a name that didn’t scream alpha to me #ufchat
10:45 pm rcmurphy: @MonicaEPierce I tend to name my dominant females after strong women in history & mythology. #UFchat
10:45 pm GraylinFox: RT @UF_Chat: Q16: What are some traits considered to be ?Beta? as opposed to Alpha? (physical, emotional etc) #UFchat
10:45 pm UF_Chat: Q17: If a geek/less physical guy = more confident/smarter/has trust of people/etc why is not an Alpha? Or is just not obviously so? #UFchat
10:45 pm sirayn: @AlyxDellamonica it’s tough to be 100% objective abt your own attitudes + writing. assumptions creep into subtext #UFchat
10:45 pm annikkawoods: Q16: Betas tend to be the more approachable, in my experience. They’re also the more emotional ones. Or so it looks like to me. #UFchat
10:46 pm kjhatch: RT @ShadowPhoenix32: @DEcharacters i agree. being alpha is about trusting your pack, and letting them know they can trust you #UFChat
10:46 pm GraylinFox: I use a random name generator and use the name that fits the charater… #UFChat
10:46 pm annikkawoods: Q17: People look to Alphas to be physically strong. I think it’s be cool to have an Alpha that was a geek, not as strong as others. #UFchat
10:46 pm sirayn: @simonm223 I think what I’m unhappy abt is that UF often inadvertently reinforces existing gender roles #UFchat
10:46 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Interesting re the historical influence there. As kid, I always thought Elizabeth girly until learned some history. #UFchat
10:46 pm jimnduncan: think betas tend more toward passive action, reactionary, not confrontational, don’t want to lead. #ufchat
10:46 pm MonicaEPierce: @rcmurphy So the ‘alpha/beta’ name convention doesn’t apply to your females? (Just curious. I find naming interesting.) #UFchat
10:46 pm rcmurphy: Nerds are almost lone wolfs. Generally they are happy that way. They can revel in the given peace of a computer while aiding Alpha. #UFchat
10:47 pm SpiceBites: i tend to choose ordinary names, someone who could be the girl/guy next door #ufchat
10:47 pm shadowflame1974: Q17 #UFchat Geek could be alpha in a group of geeks, but we don’t think of that often
10:47 pm sirayn: @simonm223 as if UF authors + readers can’t even conceive of a world in which (for example) men don’t dominate women. #UFchat
10:47 pm GraylinFox: @annikkawoods Q17: I’m reading a series with a geeky, small, goblin as the reluctant hero… #UFChat
10:47 pm rcmurphy: @MonicaEPierce Not really. My Beta females get more mundane names. As do their male counterpart. #UFchat
10:48 pm DEcharacters: while uncommon, i think a female “pack” is possible #UFchat
10:48 pm annikkawoods: @sirayn My UF stories tend to have it the other way around. Where the females are the ones in charge. #UFchat
10:48 pm UF_Chat: @shadowflame1974 Came up last week how typical alpha would NOT be alpha in a geek group – would be so out of place… #UFchat
10:48 pm UF_Chat: S: UF girls have (historically) had a lot of ?issues? (eg violence) in relationships with dominant guys. #UFchat
10:48 pm rcmurphy: Giving Beta males feminine names is a generalization… (I hate when I resort to that, sorry) #UFchat
10:48 pm SpiceBites: think betas are quiet confidence, brains before brawn, try the nice way first before going all tuff, someone with honor #ufchat
10:48 pm annikkawoods: @GraylinFox Oh? Really? What series? I’m always on the lookout for new stuff to read. #UFchat
10:48 pm UF_Chat: Q18: Is that a given, normal issues amplified due to strength or just bad behavior/maladjusted people? #UFchat
10:49 pm AlyxDellamonica: @sirayn Yes! It’s programmed in so early. Easy to make worthy of heroine guy into stronger-than… the line is fine. #UFchat
10:49 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @sirayn I’m starting to think the best uf explores issues of gender, power, dominance, submission + challenges assumptions #ufchat
10:49 pm AnassaRh: Betas have geekier, older sorts of names, I think. Martin, Walter, etc. Someone called Hubert Fitzhugh? Not alpha. #ufchat
10:49 pm GraylinFox: Yep! RT @UF_Chat: @shadowflame1974 Came up lst wk how typical alpha would NOT be alpha in a geek group – would be so out of place… #UFchat
10:50 pm GraylinFox: @annikkawoods Goblin Quest, Goblin Hero, Goblin War by Jim C. Hines #UFChat
10:50 pm kjhatch: A13b: If a beta usurps the alpha but the rest of the pack feels betrayed, it’s an opening for a new different alpha to take over #UFChat
10:51 pm SpiceBites: @GraylinFox Jim C. Hines! Love his stuff! #ufchat
10:51 pm DEcharacters: @UF_Chat matriarchal packs is one example. also the females in a mixed pack vary in status and pairing. some more alpha than others #UFchat
10:51 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @AnassaRh I’d love 2 see a book that plays with uf genre tropes: a geek alpha would be great! #ufchat
10:51 pm annikkawoods: @GraylinFox Thanks! I’ll check them out (hopefully) next time I go to the library. #UFchat
10:51 pm annikkawoods: @JulieeJohnsonn I think you’re right. #UFchat
10:51 pm AnassaRh: Q16: Wanna-be alphas: aggressive, masculine, loud-mouthed, sometimes bullies, show-offs. #ufchat
10:52 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat matriarchal packs: have u read Lori Divoti’s Amazon stories? Pretty cool stuff. #ufchat
10:52 pm shadowflame1974: Q18 #UFchat it depends on the story. IF MC s have past issues then it will come into play. If not, then another format will arrise.
10:52 pm sirayn: @annikkawoods sounds fantastic! I wrote epic fantasy where protag + antag, 2 scariest people in the setting, both female. great fun #UFchat
10:52 pm annikkawoods: @JulieeJohnsonn What about a sensitive artist type who’s an alpha? πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:52 pm GraylinFox: @SpiceBites his Goblin series is currently occupying the top spot on my Nook πŸ˜‰ #UFChat
10:53 pm UF_Chat: Q19: To flip the sides for a second – are most of the female MCs ?alpha? themselves? #UFchat
10:53 pm AnassaRh: Q16: comfortable-as-betas: quiet, more sensitive or perceptive, more egalitarian with others. Subtler ways to defuse situations. #ufchat
10:53 pm kjhatch: A13c: RE ‘retired alphas’ -I see it as kinda like tribal elders; respected advisers to the current alpha making day-to-day decisions #UFChat
10:53 pm GraylinFox: Oh yeah, there is a huge list somewhere of those names, old euro lists ;)RT @AnassaRh: Someone called Hubert Fitzhugh? Not alpha. #ufchat
10:54 pm rcmurphy: If a female is paired with an Alpha she needs to be one as well. Otherwise they tend to be swept away & you run into Romance Land. #UFchat
10:54 pm UF_Chat: Q19a: Alpha + alpha theoretically doesn?t work. There can only be 1. Is that why there are such issues between MC pairs? #UFchat
10:54 pm annikkawoods: @sirayn I’ve noticed my epic fantasy tends towards male dominated, while my UF definitely is more female dominated. #UFchat
10:54 pm SpiceBites: @GraylinFox I’m reading his The Stepsister Scheme πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:54 pm AnassaRh: @SpiceBites Ah, yes, Was answering two questions in one tweet, there. “Non-alpha name?” Hubert. #ufchat
10:54 pm shadowflame1974: @annikkawoods #UFchat you would have to define sensitive/artist type more. Not sure if he/she would work as alpha
10:54 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @annikkawoods yes! there’s got to be a way to make it work, to play with the tropes a little yet stay within the bounds… #ufchat
10:55 pm annikkawoods: Q19a: until the dynamics of the relationship are worked out, you’re going to clash. Compromise between Alphas is a good lesson. #UFchat
10:55 pm rcmurphy: Where an Alpha pairing runs into problems is the stupid notion that all Alpha males are asshats. #UFchat
10:55 pm AnassaRh: @JulieeJohnsonn I think I have one in the WIP, and a beta who’ll be alpha later on. Love messing with tropes. #ufchat
10:55 pm SpiceBites: @annikkawoods NK Jemisin’s The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms is a great epic fantasy with female protag #ufchat
10:55 pm UF_Chat: Q19b: What about ?alpha girls? (or strong lone females) and beta boys? Can it work? #UFchat
10:56 pm annikkawoods: @JulieeJohnsonn I have a bad habit of pushing the boundaries. Don’t know if my 2 UF WIPs can be called UF but I think they are. #UFchat
10:56 pm AnassaRh: @GraylinFox @Journeymouse Okay, if Hubert Fitzhugh lived in New York today, not London 100 years ago? #ufchat
10:56 pm sirayn: @annikkawoods probably reflects audiences! gender weirdness = even stronger in epic fantasy b/c fewer female writers + readers #UFchat
10:56 pm annikkawoods: @SpiceBites Yay! Another book to chase down. LOL <–Bookworm as well as a writer. πŸ˜€ #UFchat
10:56 pm SpiceBites: @AnassaRh WooHoo to messing with tropes! ;P #ufchat
10:56 pm shadowflame1974: @UF_Chat Some good alpha/alpha pairs work well. Mercy and Adam come into mind. #UFchat
10:56 pm UF_Chat: Q19c: Girls & their beta boys: what are some less appealing things about this relationship in UF stories? #UFchat
10:56 pm sirayn: @annikkawoods I mean, at least UF is often written for and by and abt women – not so much EF. #UFchat
10:56 pm rcmurphy: A confident Beta male can, in theory, stand up to his Alpha female counterpart. Men aren’t seen as weak, even a Beta. #UFchat
10:57 pm annikkawoods: @rcmurphy yes, and all alpha females are bitches. It’s fun to overcome those when you’re trying to make things work right. #UFchat
10:57 pm JulieeJohnsonn: thx to this #ufchat I’m ready to run off +create a geeky artist Alpha named Hubert who’s got bad hair just to prove it can B done!
10:57 pm annikkawoods: @sirayn I’ve notcied that too. #UFchat
10:57 pm AnassaRh: Q17: I think not obviously so. Geek alpha may not lead warrior clan, but he’d lead other things?schools, companies, organizations. #ufchat
10:57 pm SpiceBites: RT @rcmurphy: A confident Beta male can, in theory, stand up to his Alpha female counterpart. Men arent seen as weak, even a Beta. #ufchat
10:58 pm StephanieLMcGee: @JulieeJohnsonn LOL. I wish you the best of luck with that! #UFCHat
10:58 pm rcmurphy: @annikkawoods I have to admit, one of my alpha females is a raging bitch. But she is so much fun to write! #UFchat
10:59 pm kjhatch: @Polenth I’ve always felt Neville was the real Beta in HP. He was the “other one,” and was always one step behind Harry, supporting #UFChat
10:59 pm UF_Chat: Q20: Kick-ass girls have tradition of flying solo. What about beta girls? Where are they? Are there any in UF? Can you think of egs? #UFchat
10:59 pm annikkawoods: Q19c: Where the female has the male cowed. I’m sorry. That irritates me as much as the male dominates fem w/violence. #UFchat
10:59 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @annikkawoods yes, how do U know if U’ve gone too far + left the genre! Gotta work within the tropes not get rid of them entirely! #ufchat
10:59 pm SpiceBites: Found a Beta hero! Owen in Shanna Swendson’s Enchanted Inc.? #ufchat
10:59 pm annikkawoods: @rcmurphy I have one of those too. She is a lot of fun, especially since she KNOWS she’s a bitch. #UFchat
10:59 pm UF_Chat: Only a few more questions to go folks! We may run a few mins over but we’re very close to being done for today. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:00 pm kjhatch: @Polenth I was surprised that while Neville led the fight at the end he didn’t get a more heroic finish overall. #UFChat
11:00 pm annikkawoods: @JulieeJohnsonn I write what I feel like writing. When I’m done with letting the characters tell the story, I’ll worry abt genre. #UFchat
11:00 pm UF_Chat: Q20a: What role would beta girls have? #UFchat
11:00 pm rcmurphy: @annikkawoods Mine knows as well. In order to survive in her family she had to become a bitch. Embrace the bitchy. #UFchat
11:01 pm annikkawoods: Q20: Most kick ass girls are kicking back after being dominated by men. I’ve yet to come across an Alpha fem who doesn’t have issues #UFchat
11:01 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat hmmm, I can’t think of a single beta girl. Good Q: Where are they? #ufchat
11:01 pm StephanieLMcGee: Gotta run. Thanks for a fun chat everyone! Hopefully I’ll be here in two weeks. Have to miss next Sat. #UFCHat
11:01 pm rcmurphy: Beta females tend to be the best friend, or only friend an Alpha female can run to. She tries to help return the Alpha to femininity #UFchat
11:02 pm UF_Chat: S: Been talking about guys mostly in a supporting role today? not as MC. (Here?s list of male MCs in UF: http://bit.ly/aKbXCs) #UFchat
11:02 pm AnassaRh: Q19: I think lots of female MCs are alphas, but won’t say “most”. Haven’t read enough UF. #ufchat
11:02 pm UF_Chat: Q21: What about male main characters? Are they mainly alphas, loners, something else? #UFchat
11:02 pm annikkawoods: @rcmurphy Mine spent 5 years living on the streets in a bad part of town. She had to become a bitch to stay alive. #UFchat
11:02 pm AnassaRh: I don’t think I’d call Rachel Morgan an alpha. Ivy, yeah, probably. #ufchat
11:03 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Q20A: beta girl role: mirror? Thinking of Melissa Marr’s Wicked Lovely –the Winter Queen? #ufchat
11:03 pm GraylinFox: I don’t track genre, I just write. RT @JulieeJohnsonn: @annikkawoods yes, how do U know if U’ve gone too far + left the genre! #ufchat
11:03 pm kjhatch: A20: It’s an easy answer, but Faith was definitely Buffy’s Beta. #UFChat
11:03 pm annikkawoods: @JulieeJohnsonn I’ve got a decent Beta girl in one of my UFs. But I’m with you on not reading many books w/them in it. #UFchat
11:03 pm GraylinFox: Completely agree… RT @AnassaRh: I don’t think I’d call Rachel Morgan an alpha. Ivy, yeah, probably. #ufchat
11:03 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy What would you call Ivy in Rachel Morgan series? Hugely powerful but always defers to Rachel. (I sometimes wonder why) #UFchat
11:04 pm AnassaRh: @rcmurphy Agreed. Non-asshat alpha pairings = much better dynamic, fewer violent clashes. #ufchat
11:04 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @GraylinFox I’m always aware of genre because I like to play with the tropes…I write comedy mostly…its part of poking fun #ufchat
11:04 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh See my comment to @rcmurphy. I think Rachel takes on Alpha role often but not comfortable in it. #UFchat
11:04 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat I haven’t read the series, but if she’s defers to someone else she either doesn’t want to be Alpha or needs a push to be it #UFchat
11:05 pm GraylinFox: If I did that, I’d need more hair color! RT @JulieeJohnsonn: I’m always aware of genre because I like to play with the tropes.. #ufchat
11:05 pm AnassaRh: Q19b: Yes! I’m certain alpha girl/beta boy can work. Betas are supportive and loyal, right? And a good alpha will compromise. #ufchat
11:06 pm UF_Chat: Q21: (rephrase) Back to the boys – male MCs – are they mainly alphas, loners or something else? #UFchat
11:06 pm Cameron_Haley: I don’t think either Rachel or Ivy are “alphas” in the sense of being confident leader-types. They’re both more like real people. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:06 pm SpiceBites: i always end up adding to the TBR pile after these chats πŸ˜› #ufchat
11:06 pm shadowflame1974: @UF_Chat #UFchat I would hope to say the female MC are themselves.
11:06 pm AnassaRh: This too. RT @rcmurphy: A confident Beta male can stand up to his Alpha female counterpart. Men aren’t seen as weak, even a Beta. #UFchat
11:06 pm UF_Chat: S: In a recent #UFchat many people mentioned wishes 4 heroes (& heroines) to be geeky, virgins, socially inept, overweight, ?ugly?. #UFchat
11:06 pm sirayn: @annikkawoods dominant females don’t bother me as much b/c not reinforcing centuries of oppression + don’t have social approval #UFchat
11:06 pm kjhatch: Have to run, thanks for the chat all #ufchat
11:06 pm GraylinFox: I think Rachel is growing into the alpha role.. but Ivy had at for at least the first two books RT @UF_Chat: @AnassaRh @rcmurphy. #UFchat
11:07 pm UF_Chat: Q22: Why haven?t we seen many of those types of MCs or heroes yet? #UFchat
11:07 pm sirayn: @annikkawoods whereas a male character dominating a female has the entire force of the patriarchy behind him. #UFchat
11:07 pm annikkawoods: @sirayn Very good point. #UFchat
11:07 pm Cameron_Haley: A22: Because they don’t get published. #UFchat
11:08 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Maybe they were tired of the too perfect –females that can kick ass and have all boys falling for them types #ufchat
11:08 pm UF_Chat: @Cameron_Haley Agree – think the real alpha in the series is Trent (is that his name)? Waiting for inevitable hook-up. #UFchat
11:08 pm annikkawoods: Q22: Because geeky/overweight/ugly don’t sell. #UFchat
11:08 pm rcmurphy: People read fantasy to escape reality. “Ugly” characters hit too close to reality. Some flaws are fine, but more than that, meh. #UFchat
11:08 pm UF_Chat: Q22a: Why is there such a tendency to make the MCs physically tough and good looking? #UFchat
11:08 pm sirayn: @annikkawoods a male character subjugated by a female is unlikely to be told he deserved it, it was justifiable treatment, etc. #UFchat
11:08 pm UF_Chat: @Cameron_Haley LOL (don’t get published) #UFchat
11:09 pm sirayn: @annikkawoods I guess with dominant male/inferior female dynamic, there is secondary victimisation by society as a whole. #UFchat
11:09 pm UF_Chat: S: Most UF relationships deal with the MCs getting together – new partnerships. #UFchat
11:09 pm annikkawoods: @sirayn Those are all good points. But it all depends on the culture too. If it’s a fem dominated culture, that can happen to him. #UFchat
11:09 pm UF_Chat: Q23: How would a mature alpha and kick-ass female MC relationship work? Would it? #UFchat
11:10 pm UF_Chat: Q24: Hero or anti-hero? What do you prefer? What?s the current reader preference do you think and why? #UFchat
11:10 pm Cameron_Haley: A23: Probably like Bill & Hillary. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
11:10 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Maybe she’s emergent – part of her journey – like Harry Dresden. Don’t know – seems less mature in many ways. #UFchat
11:10 pm sirayn: @annikkawoods good point! haven’t seen one of those in UF so far, but still have a lot of reading to do. πŸ˜€ #UFchat
11:10 pm AnassaRh: I think beta girls could take on any beta male role. Second in command, subtler leader, in charge of support network, etc. #ufchat
11:10 pm annikkawoods: @sirayn Or if he comes from a family of domineering women. But I see where you’re coming from. Society emphasizes fem inferiority. #UFchat
11:10 pm rcmurphy: I hope the mature Alpha and kick-ass female thing works. One of my novels depends on it or I need to edit! lol #UFchat
11:11 pm UF_Chat: Q25: Do male writers write UF males ?especially alphas- diff. from women writers (some listed here: http://bit.ly/9DENnw)? How so? #UFchat
11:11 pm annikkawoods: @sirayn Heh…my werewolves are unique. They’re usually fem dominant packs. #UFchat
11:11 pm SpiceBites: @annikkawoods @sirayan: Usually female villains dominate/subjugate the men if its reversed…generally spking #ufchat
11:12 pm Cameron_Haley: A25: Some male writers write some male chars differently from some female writers. #UFchat
11:12 pm sirayn: @UF_Chat I imagine a mature alpha might mellow out + lose hyperaggression of youth, making him a more likeable love interest. #UFchat
11:12 pm UF_Chat: LAST Q: ?Uber-alpha? or not, what in your opinion makes a true urban fantasy hero? #UFchat
11:12 pm rcmurphy: Q25: I write my males a lot like some of my male writer friends. Dunno if I am an oddball or strangely connected to Alpha maled #UFchat
11:13 pm annikkawoods: @UF_Chat A true hero is someone who takes what they’ve been given & works w/it, not whine abt unfairness, & learns to work w/others. #UFchat
11:13 pm JulieeJohnsonn: thanks for a great #ufchat everyone!
11:13 pm rcmurphy: Renee can’t type today. *kicks the typo demon* #UFchat
11:14 pm UF_Chat: That?s a wrap for #UFchat today! We should have some very interesting alphas, betas and other UF bad boys to read soon! #UFchat
11:14 pm UF_Chat: Some resources on the topic of alphas, betas & related issues in UF tweeted next: #UFchat
11:14 pm AnassaRh: Q22: We haven’t seen our wishlist because we, right now, are the people writing it. We’re rebelling against what we’ve been given. #ufchat
11:14 pm SpiceBites: Enjoyed chatting! See u all next time…we will have a next time rt? #ufchat
11:14 pm Cameron_Haley: @UF_Chat Thanks for hosting another interesting chat! Later, y’all. #UFchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: What Is It All About Alpha? or The Upside of Dark Heroes by romance author Suzanne Brockmann http://bit.ly/9SbkZ2 #UFchat Xlnt/funny #UFchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: Related post on empowerment vs weaponizing in UF by Emmett Spain (@oldhauntsauthor) http://bit.ly/d2nndNUFchat #
11:15 pm AnassaRh: Q22: Also, to be somewhat cynical, publishing’s always a few years behind, and maybe thinks our wishlist “won’t sell”? #ufchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: @SpiceBites Every Saturday at 3pm PST πŸ™‚ Thanks for coming today! #UFchat
11:16 pm rcmurphy: Thank you @UF_Chat for a great discussion. I really enjoyed tearing the boys (and some of the girls) apart. #UFchat
11:16 pm annikkawoods: @AnassaRh Exactly. We’re writing what we want to read because we enjoy what we’re doing. #UFchat
11:16 pm UF_Chat: @Cameron_Haley Thank you! And much continued success to you! πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:17 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh He he – by the time you write and get them accepted they will. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
11:17 pm UF_Chat: Hairy Men & Testosterone by @StaciaKane http://bit.ly/ac7boO #UFchat
11:17 pm AnassaRh: Q22a: Wish fulfillment? Trying to get the book to sell? Though usually in UF, you need to be in shape if you’re going to survive. #ufchat
11:18 pm UF_Chat: Action Heroes by Carrie Vaughn (On the role of men in relation to action/kick-ass-women as MCs) http://bit.ly/bLz0he #UFchat
11:18 pm UF_Chat: Are Alpha Males in Danger of Extinction? (mainstream article Women?s Health Mag) http://bit.ly/vDxFwUFchat #
11:18 pm UF_Chat: Mainstream articles on ?how to be an alpha male?: Ask Men http://bit.ly/c1Bpmq Wise Geek http://bit.ly/dcAFFjUFchat #
11:19 pm UF_Chat: Mainstream articles on ?How to be an Alpha Male? cont. How to Become Alpha website http://bit.ly/bu9Um6UFchat #
11:19 pm UF_Chat: Announcement next ? if you want to promote your UF posts, book or anything else UF related now is the time! #UFchat
11:20 pm UF_Chat: Got a topic you want to chat about? Let me know! I?ll add it to the list & maybe even bump up the chat-date for it. ? #UFchat
11:20 pm AnassaRh: I can but hope! RT @UF_Chat: @AnassaRh He he – by the time you write and get them accepted they will. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
11:20 pm UF_Chat: If you wish to highlight a UF release by author here on Twitter from the last week ? let me know & I?ll promote it. Just @inkgypsy #UFchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: I’m slowly making a list of UF authors on Twitter on #UFchat blog site. Please suggest more to @inkgypsy (me in regular tweet time) #UFchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: @UF_Chat lights out. πŸ˜‰ Transcript available on the #UFchat blog in 36hrs-ish, allowing for late comments. Just use the hashtag. #UFchat
11:22 pm AnassaRh: Yes! RT @annikkawoods: True hero is takes what they’ve been given & works w/it, not whine abt unfairness, & learns to work w/others. #UFchat
11:23 pm AnassaRh: I want to identify with and/or like the hero. I want them believable. I want to see them champion Good. #ufchat
11:24 pm annikkawoods: Thanks for the great chat everyone! Looking forward to next week’s, if I make it home from work in time. #UFchat
11:24 pm annikkawoods: @AnassaRh I don’t care if they champion Good so much as if I can believe in them & what they’re doing. #UFchat
11:26 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat Learned a lot today listening. TY 2 U and all writers in the room. #UFchat
11:27 pm sirayn: pantpant. my little typing fingers are tired from keeping up with #UFchat. got absolutely no writing done, but belatedly #amwriting now.
11:27 pm rcmurphy: #UFchat was like running a gauntlet with cement shoes on today. I need chocolate ASAP!
11:28 pm inkgypsy: @elizabethkarr Thanks for coming today! Was busy & was a lot of thinking going on – which is really good. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:28 pm AnassaRh: @annikkawoods Same. And by ‘champion Good’ I mean more ‘has morals and ethics, doesn’t support Evil” #ufchat
11:29 pm UF_Chat: Today was busy and a day for thinking hard in #UFchat – please keep commenting using hashtag – lots interested in the topic & transcript!
11:29 pm inkgypsy: Today was busy and a day for thinking hard in #UFchat – please keep commenting using hashtag – lots interested in the topic & transcript!
11:29 pm annikkawoods: @AnassaRh Ok, I can agree with that definition of ‘championing Good’. I’m not fond of goody two shoes types. #ufchat
11:29 pm annikkawoods: @sirayn LOL Same here. I still have a #amwriting goal to hit today. But #ufchat was awesome.
11:31 pm AnassaRh: @annikkawoods Nor am I. They’re too perfect, not real. #ufchat
11:32 pm sirayn: @annikkawoods yeah, it was fun! I’ve read #ufchat before but never participated. influx of new followers, as well. (hi there followers!)
11:34 pm annikkawoods: @AnassaRh I agree. I don’t like “perfection” unless it’s used as a fatal flaw in a protagonist/antagonist. #ufchat
11:40 pm simonm223: RT @sirayn: @simonm223 I think what I’m unhappy abt is that UF often inadvertently reinforces existing gender roles #UFchat
September 19, 2010
1:40 am dystophil: Aww, missed #UFchat and all kinds of other interesting stuff while I was asleep 😦
1:58 am rixshep: @inkgypsy Looks like #ufchat is going great! Sorry my new schedule runs right thru it, but happy to see it going so well! Congrats!
3:00 am inkgypsy: @rixshep Late comments using the hashtag always welcome though! πŸ™‚ #UFchat
3:44 am inkgypsy: Mummified man – life size – snack for later for something even bigger… Delicious! http://bit.ly/bsA816 @JLCoburn #Halloween #UFchat
4:05 am judink: RT @MonicaEPierce: Can’t the roles be in flux? Do we really need rigid definition? I prefer to see characters challenging each others’ roles. = growth #UFchat
5:05 am Daylilie222: RT @inkgypsy: Mummified man – life size – snack for later for something even bigger… Delicious! http://bit.ly/bsA816 @JLCoburn #Halloween #UFchat
6:20 am inkgypsy: Oh my goodness! Gmail fox has an occasional Chinese Vampire foxes pic! *swoon* http://bit.ly/aHNgDQ #UFchat
6:45 am AnassaRh: I think I came up with a “missed” question for today’s #ufchat (next tweet; it’s long): (1/2)
6:46 am AnassaRh: Are you an alpha or beta personality? Do you prefer writing/readings alphas or betas? Why? #ufchat (2/2)
6:46 am AnassaRh: Okay, so three questions rolled into one? #ufchat
6:48 am AnassaRh: I got thinking tonight, see. Think I’m a beta, or proto-alpha. Can lead, delegate, etc. but gen don’t like lots of responsibility. #ufchat
6:51 am AnassaRh: Of my 5 lead chars in my WIP, I have: 1 happy-as-beta, 1 wannabe-alpha, 2 alphas, 1 loner. Chars in other stories usu non-alpha. #ufchat
6:52 am AnassaRh: Just wondering if there’s any sort of link between personality of writer and personality of characters. #ufchat
6:52 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Do I prefer writing/reading alphas or betas? I like a mix – I like to see dynamics b/w them. For MCs want development arc. #UFchat
6:54 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh There’s a definite tendency between sibling placement & types. 1st borns tend to alpha for multi reasons. #UFchat
6:56 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Re personality of writer & types? No idea but notice many write what wished 4 selves but didn’t exhibit (generalization!). #UFchat
6:58 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Most writers admit there are parts of themselves in characters -some more than others. Alpha/beta may be diff level again. #UFchat
7:02 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Re WIPS, MCs have lot of me in them -all v. diff but none so far end up in charge/leading like I often default to. #UFchat
7:02 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy Yeah, a mix is necessary, as is development arc. Not saying we only write one personality type. #ufchat
7:04 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Thinking as you ask may be because am trying to explore difficult/deeper parts of myself not so public? Not sure. Good Q. #UFchat
7:04 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy Also yes, writers put themselves into chars (me too). Kinda of why I asked the Q. Hadn’t considered wish fulfilment? #ufchat
7:05 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh I mean I prefer a mix in reading – if book only focuses on alpha & 2nd feels oddly empty to me. I think where is evryone? #UFchat
7:07 am inkgypsy: @oldhauntsauthor Am thinking on topics – did you follow #UFchat today? Lots of questions/gray areas worthy of essay/post exploration.
7:07 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy MCs ? one will lead in my style, but not this bk. The other’s more my opposite. Have learned much about me, writing him. #ufchat
7:10 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy I have the same rxn to alpha-focus books. I don’t identify. But then, mostly encounter bitches/jerks? #ufchat
7:11 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy Also hadn’t considered sibling placement. I’m 1st-born, introvert. Sister’s more dominant, extrovert. Hmm. #ufchat
7:15 am oldhauntsauthor: @inkgypsy Have been following the chat – I’d be interested in writing about heroes vs. anti-heroes… what do you think? #UFchat
7:16 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh I’m 1st born introvert but leader-type – always responsible & left to handle crisis etc Extrovert 2nd more go with flow #UFchat
7:17 am inkgypsy: @oldhauntsauthor Sounds good to me – seemed like that might end up a big discussion so didn’t ask all my her/anti-hero prompts! #UFchat
7:18 am inkgypsy: @oldhauntsauthor It will come up again when we discuss the noir influence in UF in a future chat too. #UFchat
7:18 am oldhauntsauthor: @inkgypsy Sweet. U happy for me to draw up a post over the next week and send it over to you for review? Do you have any word limit? #UFchat
7:21 am inkgypsy: @oldhauntsauthor Not particularly – you have a blog & know what people will read. I can always post Pt 1 & 2 if necessary. #UFchat
7:22 am inkgypsy: @oldhauntsauthor I also like to include images and white space to help people ‘travel’ through post, if that helps. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
7:26 am oldhauntsauthor: @inkgypsy Cool. Could you DM me an e-mail address I can send the post to when I’ve got a cut ready for your review? #UFchat
7:28 am inkgypsy: @oldhauntsauthor Just did. πŸ˜‰ Thank you! #UFchat
7:29 am oldhauntsauthor: @inkgypsy Ah, winner! Cheers : ) #UFchat
6:42 pm AnassaRh: @inkgypsy I’m like you?the Responsible One. Also headed school projects because no one else would. #ufchat

__________________________________

END OF TRANSCRIPT FOR SEPTEMBER 18th, 2010

Awesome discussion everyone! Thank you for participating and getting the gray matter churning. πŸ˜€

Feel free to add thoughts and resources during the week as you think them or find them – just use the #UFchat hashtag so I can find them and add them to the discussion & transcript.

The β€œPublished UF authors on Twitter” page for the blog (check the link at the very top of the page) is slowly growing (there are a LOT of UF authors on Twitter!) and it’s and linked it to a list on Twitter for easy following.

If you see someone you think should be on there, there’s a good chance I just haven’t gotten to adding them yet BUT please always feel free to add suggestions by @-ing @inkgypsy and I’ll add them to the list ASAP.

Stay tuned to @UF_Chat on Twitter for countdown’s and updates.

See you next week!

Gypsy (@inkgypsy)

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Transcript for September 11, 2010: Alpha Males & Other Bad Boys in UF

Today’s Topic: Alphas, bad boys, heroes & anti-heroes – who’s REALLY tough?

Official UFchat questions in YELLOW for easier reading.

Resources/ topic-related links are in BLUE.

Once again, people had a lot to say so it’s been voted we continue with the second half of the questions, focusing on betas, next week. πŸ™‚

4:42 am inkgypsy: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat
4:47 am UF_Chat: It’s almost Saturday – time for #UFchat again! @ 3pm PST/6pm EST Tomorrow’s TOPIC: The Alpha male (& his ‘Beta’ half) – let’s talk tough!
4:47 am inkgypsy: It’s almost Saturday – time for #UFchat again! @ 3pm PST/6pm EST Tomorrow’s TOPIC: The Alpha male (& his ‘Beta’ half) – let’s talk tough!
4:49 am Book_Faery: RT @inkgypsy: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat
4:50 am Wookiesgirl: RT @inkgypsy: It’s almost Saturday – time for #UFchat again! @ 3pm PST/6pm EST Tomorrow’s TOPIC: The Alpha male (& his ‘Beta’ half) – let’s talk tough!
4:53 am Daylilie222: RT @inkgypsy: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat
4:58 am inkgypsy: @Daylilie222 I’m busy trying to prep for #UFchat tomorrow – hard when not 100% Wish I had a magic whosiwhatsit handy – or an assistant.
5:05 am inkgypsy: Anybody want to pick a pros brain on hand-to-hand combat? Here: πŸ™‚ #UFchat RT @J_GriffinB I am offering to answer any questions abt h2h.
1:13 pm leapetra: as for #ufchat today. Depends how well my book signing goes.
1:48 pm simonm223: Unsure if I’ll make #UFChat today. May not be home by 6 PM. If anybody HAS fight questions http://bit.ly/8ZdrFP It’s my area of expertise.
1:48 pm simonm223: Looks like @J_GriffinB is a known expert on fight questions for #ufchat peeps if my Twitter feed doesn’t lie.
2:07 pm J_GriffinB: #ufchat expert, defined: someone whose experience is better than that of average lay-person. I have lots of experience w/street fights.
2:32 pm StephanieLMcGee: @inkgypsy Can’t make it to #UFChat (again, sigh). Very sad. But I will say I do wish just once the beta half would turn out the real hero.
3:40 pm simonm223: Good enough def to work with. RT @J_GriffinB: #ufchat expert, defined: someone whose experience is better than that of average lay-person.
3:43 pm J_GriffinB: #ufchat @simonm223 I just don’t want MMA/Muai Thai fighters calling me out. My profession lends experience, my preference is to avoid fights
5:00 pm UF_Chat: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
5:00 pm inkgypsy: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
5:01 pm Daylilie222: RT @inkgypsy: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
5:02 pm annikkawoods: @inkgypsy Today’s #UFchat sounds like a good one. Wish I could be there. I have to be someplace at 3:30 PST.
5:03 pm annikkawoods: RT @inkgypsy: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
5:05 pm rcmurphy: RT @UF_Chat: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
5:14 pm simonm223: @J_GriffinB I somehow doubt you have to worry about Muai Thai fighters calling you out on #ufchat. πŸ˜‰ I understand the sentiment entirely.
6:06 pm leapetra: These Creatures are Up for Adoption. part 1 http://bit.ly/dwGlJL #UFChat #folklore #urbanFantasy
7:38 pm QQwill: RT @inkgypsy: It’s #UFchat day! 3pmPST/6pmEST All welcome tho you may want to wear boots… πŸ˜‰ TOPIC: The Alpha male & his ‘Beta’ half – let’s talk tough!
7:44 pm RoseanneSchmidt: ?? Thought it was on Post-#steampunk–RT @AnassaRh: this week’s #scifichat‘s on fantasy in the real world! I nearly did. (2-4 EST) #ufchat
8:02 pm UF_Chat: 2 hours to #UFchat! Taking on the big boys today: Alpha males, bad boys & betas too. 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
8:02 pm inkgypsy: 2 hours to #UFchat! Taking on the big boys today: Alpha males, bad boys & betas too. 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
8:03 pm rcmurphy: RT @UF_Chat: 2 hours to #UFchat! Taking on the big boys today: Alpha males, bad boys & betas too. 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
8:05 pm QQwill: RT @inkgypsy 2 hours to #UFchat! Taking on the big boys today: Alpha males, bad boys & betas too. 3pmPST/ 6pmEST
8:10 pm ShadowPhoenix32: sadly, i have to miss #UFchat today. can’t wait to read the transcripts
8:11 pm J_GriffinB: wonders if Alphas are allowed to join in. I’d hate to crash an alpha-bashing fete. @inkgypsy #Ufchat
8:15 pm inkgypsy: @J_GriffinB All alphas welcome. We’re trying to sort the real men from the pretenders… πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
8:16 pm inkgypsy: @ShadowPhoenix32 😦 We’ll miss you. Early or late comments on the topic are both welcome. Just use the hashtag. #UFchat
8:17 pm J_GriffinB: @inkgypsy I eat quiche, speak french and take long walks… Do I pretend? #ufchat
8:20 pm TheMonsterBlogs: I may be back for #UFChat though maybe as @Saffy and only if the insomnia that is threatening hits!
8:29 pm inkgypsy: @J_GriffinB He he – we’ll have to see what people consider manly… do you do it all while juggling Uzis? #UFchat
8:31 pm inkgypsy: @jimnduncan From what I’m seeing a lot have issues – the stereotype rules & it’s bothering readers more & more. #UFchat
9:00 pm UF_Chat: 60 min countdown to #UFchat – the boys are in the ring today: Alphas, bad boys, heroes & anti-heroes – who’s REALLY tough? 3pm PST/6pm EST
9:00 pm inkgypsy: 60 min countdown to #UFchat – the boys are in the ring today: Alphas, bad boys, heroes & anti-heroes – who’s REALLY tough? 3pm PST/6pm EST
9:20 pm UF_Chat: Tough-love for Alphas! What do girls want & boys respect? TODAY: sorting bad boys from bad (stereotypical) characters #UFchat 3pmPST Pls RT
9:20 pm inkgypsy: Tough-love for Alphas! What do girls want & boys respect? TODAY: sorting bad boys from bad (stereotypical) characters #UFchat 3pmPST Pls RT
9:23 pm rcmurphy: RT @UF_Chat: Tough-love for Alphas! What do girls want & boys respect? TODAY: sorting bad boys from bad (stereotypical) characters #UFchat 3pmPST Pls RT
9:24 pm inkgypsy: @rcmurphy Interested in your two cents today! Bad boys have a lot of issues.. LOL (& writing them well isn’t so easy) #UFchat
9:27 pm shadowflame1974: RT @inkgypsy: @rcmurphy Interested in your two cents today! Bad boys have a lot of issues.. LOL (& writing them well isn’t so easy) #UFchat
9:27 pm Daylilie222: RT @inkgypsy: Tough-love for Alphas! What do girls want & boys respect? TODAY: sorting bad boys from bad (stereotypical) characters #UFchat 3pmPST Pls RT
9:29 pm rcmurphy: @inkgypsy Actually my strong point is bad boys. lol Hopefully I can get my edits done in time to join y’all. #UFchat
9:30 pm UF_Chat: 30 min countdown to #UFchat! TODAY: Bad boys: How big are their boots anyway? (in EVERY context!) Alphas, betas, heroes & more 3pmPST/6pmEST
9:30 pm inkgypsy: 30 min countdown to #UFchat! TODAY: Bad boys: How big are their boots anyway? (in EVERY context!) Alphas, betas, heroes & more 3pmPST/6pmEST
9:31 pm AnassaRh: I’ll actually be attending #ufchat on time today! No late-night rambling this time! I’m excited. πŸ™‚
9:32 pm shadowflame1974: RT @UF_Chat: 30 min countdown to #UFchat! TODAY: Bad boys: How big are their boots anyway? (in EVERY context!) Alphas, betas, heroes & more 3pmPST/6pmEST
9:40 pm Katen: Oh hey! I’m around to catch #ufchat!
9:41 pm inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Woot! I’m so excited to see you taking part live! (Of course I’ll miss the midnight ramblings.. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
9:43 pm inkgypsy: @psynde Most of us will be in tweetchat. Just sign in with twitter account & put in the #UFchat hashtag. πŸ™‚
9:44 pm UF_Chat: Primer for #UFchat early birds: Read VERY LAST PARAGRAPH of Tor’s Roundtable ParanormalRom Heroines & Heroes http://bit.ly/db6z2y
9:44 pm inkgypsy: Primer for #UFchat early birds: Read VERY LAST PARAGRAPH of Tor’s Roundtable ParanormalRom Heroines & Heroes http://bit.ly/db6z2y
9:45 pm inkgypsy: 15 mins to #UFchat! Ringside seats: it’s the Alphas challenging the wannabes. Boots, claws, teeth, uzis.. don’t expect fair fighting 3pm PST
9:45 pm UF_Chat: 15 mins to #UFchat! Ringside seats: it’s the Alphas challenging the wannabes. Boots, claws, teeth, uzis.. don’t expect fair fighting 3pm PST
9:46 pm shadowflame1974: RT @inkgypsy: 15 mins to #UFchat! Ringside seats: it’s the Alphas challenging the wannabes. Boots, claws, teeth, uzis.. don’t expect fair fighting 3pm PST
9:51 pm inkgypsy: @StephanieLMcGee I’ll make sure this comment is in the transcript. πŸ˜‰ #UFchat
9:52 pm inkgypsy: RT @simonm223: #UFChat If anybody HAS fight questions http://bit.ly/8ZdrFP It’s my area of expertise.
9:52 pm LocoLuna: Watched Big Trouble In Little China – fab film, really enjoyed it. Now in bed, waiting for #ufchat which starts in a few mins. Woohoo πŸ˜‰
9:55 pm psynde: I love big trouble in little china #UFchat
9:55 pm inkgypsy: For those who missed it last night: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat
9:55 pm psynde: Hi all!!! #UFchat
9:56 pm inkgypsy: Getting on my #UFchat boots, changing identities to #UFchat mod & bringing my 1st aid kit today – ringside could get bloody. πŸ˜‰
9:57 pm simonm223: Hey #UFChat I am in the house.
9:57 pm UF_Chat: @psynde Hey lady – you’re early but there’s lots to prep with. πŸ˜‰ Big Trouble is LOT of fun! #ufchat
9:58 pm HC_Palmquist: RT @inkgypsy: Getting on my #UFchat boots, changing identities to #UFchat mod & bringing my 1st aid kit today – ringside could get bloody. πŸ˜‰
9:58 pm rcmurphy: Lurking for the first few moments. Recovering from editing. Ugh! #UFchat
9:58 pm psynde: I know im early I always worry it work for me #UFchat
9:58 pm UF_Chat: Taking on the BIG BOYS today. Alphas & betas ?all about tough love. Show no fear. There?s safety in numbers. (Add your muscle!) #ufchat
9:58 pm J_GriffinB: Hey all. I’m not a UF writer, but have been known to read a bit. Fantasy and SF writer, published RPG writer. #ufchat
9:59 pm shadowflame1974: Hey everyone #UFchat Got my notebook and my box of klenex (allergies)
9:59 pm psynde: You don’t have tone a writer to be here yes? #UFchat
9:59 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB Welcome! All readers & writers welcome to join in #UFchat. #ufchat
10:00 pm UF_Chat: 3, 2… and we are now live with #UFchat! What is an Alpha anyway? Does tough = alpha? Are our heroes heroic? We?ll find out today! #ufchat
10:00 pm J_GriffinB: @J_GriffinB survivor of a fair number of fights as well. #ufchat
10:00 pm simonm223: SF writer here but I read a lot of #UF and have a terrible #UF manuscript under my bed. #ufchat
10:00 pm AnassaRh: Getting antsy with anticipation. H’lo, everyone! #ufchat
10:00 pm UF_Chat: TODAY?S TOPIC: Alpha males and their ?Beta? sides ? let?s talk tough! #ufchat
10:01 pm UF_Chat: As per usual Q = question for group & ‘S’ = statement (and will be followed by another ‘Q’). #ufchat
10:01 pm ShoeWhyspers: RT @inkgypsy For those who missed it last night: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat << wow!
10:02 pm UF_Chat: Hello everyone! Let’s do this thing! Q1: How would you define ?alpha? as in alpha male? #ufchat
10:02 pm shadowflame1974: @simonm223 #UFchat doesnt everyone?
10:03 pm psynde: Who is the ” group” this week? #UFchat
10:03 pm rcmurphy: I loathe the term “alpha” but for my books it tends to be the men that put themselves in charge when the shite hits the fan. lol #UFchat
10:03 pm UF_Chat: Q1: Alpha males – when you hear the phrase, what does it mean to you? #ufchat
10:04 pm simonm223: @shadowflame1974 ROTFLMFAO! On #ufchat possibly.
10:04 pm UF_Chat: @psynde Anybody attending #UFchat is the group. πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
10:04 pm psynde: Ah!! #UFchat
10:05 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy So in charge = alpha to you? Or takes charge perhaps? #ufchat
10:05 pm Jinxie_G: RT @UF_Chat: 3, 2… and we are now live with #UFchat! What is an Alpha anyway? Does tough = alpha? Are our heroes heroic? We?ll find out today! #ufchat
10:05 pm psynde: Sometimes the use of the alpha word or formula sets me up not to like char! #UFchat
10:05 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Q1 alpha: strong male. top dog. Usually a leader. effective at such a role
10:05 pm Book_Faery: #UFchat Alpha to me = Inherent leadership skills. Kinda pushy. Tough. Strong/large build. Usually super stubborn. Overprotective
10:05 pm UF_Chat: Q1a: How would you describe your ideal alpha male (character)? Doesn?t have to be a love interest. #ufchat
10:05 pm Jinxie_G: RT @UF_Chat: TODAY?S TOPIC: Alpha males and their ?Beta? sides ? let?s talk tough! #ufchat
10:05 pm psynde: They gotta have some weakess #UFchat
10:05 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat Takes charge is more fitting. But they HAVE to be competent. #UFchat
10:06 pm UF_Chat: I like that – needing to appear ‘male’ at all times , not necessarily about macho but ‘male’ by their definition. @AnassaRh #ufchat
10:07 pm psynde: Jim- they do and I hate that asshat thing.. Do they have to be jerks? #UFchat
10:07 pm AnassaRh: Agreed. RT @shadowflame1974: #UFchat Q1 alpha: strong male. top dog. Usually a leader. effective at such a role
10:07 pm jeanettemarsh: RT @inkgypsy: For those who missed it last night: Writing Fight Scenes (& Other Unladylike Pursuits) http://tiny.cc/682v0 #UFchat
10:07 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Q1: pushy, has the ability to override the group when necessary. Holds all the strings. can control self when shit hits the fan
10:08 pm UF_Chat: @psynde What kind of weaknesses should an alpha have? Or do you mean characters sh. have weaknesses so they’re not boringly perfect? #ufchat
10:08 pm jimnduncan: It seems the ‘jerk’ aspect of Alphas is for the sole purpose of heroines to dismantle over course of story. #ufchat
10:08 pm simonm223: A1: My primary antagonist is quite alpha. A lot of my books conflict driven b/c can’t handle protag growing up, makn own decisions. #ufchat
10:08 pm AnassaRh: @Book_Faery That’s definitely what we see a lot of in UF. Not sure all alphas in reality are like that, though. #ufchat
10:08 pm psynde: Yes I hate that boringly perfect thing with a side of jerk. #UFchat
10:09 pm psynde: Something people struggle with.. #UFchat
10:09 pm simonm223: A1 (cont): Antagonist in question is competent, confident and used to being in control. Socially adept except when temper flares. #ufchat
10:09 pm jimnduncan: I just don’t like the generic “he’s so tough but a real ass” as a setup for the relational conflict. Completely overused. #ufchat
10:10 pm shadowflame1974: Q1 #UfChat Has the ability to lead. but all might not think he is a good leader.
10:10 pm rcmurphy: @jimnduncan I agree. Not all men are jerks. Writers need to find new conflicts to work with. #UFchat
10:10 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan Agree on the jerk to be dismantled – too often true. The stereotypical is a problem too. #ufchat
10:11 pm shadowflame1974: RT @rcmurphy: Alphas will be the men with scars on the inside as well as the outside, but they are very good at hiding it. #UFchat
10:11 pm AnassaRh: A1a: My ideal alpha would be strong of personality, confident in self, well-rounded person. Take-charge, but knows when to give in. #ufchat
10:11 pm UF_Chat: Actually seeing a lot of grumbling among readers that the alphas are too much like that. @jimnduncan #ufchat
10:11 pm shadowflame1974: @rcmurphy #UFchat much of the macho appearance is to hide those scars
10:11 pm UF_Chat: RT @rcmurphy: @jimnduncan I agree. Not all men are jerks. Writers need to find new conflicts to work with. #UFchat
10:12 pm UF_Chat: Q2: Can you give examples of Alpha males in UF? – Both bad guys and good guys? #ufchat
10:12 pm AnassaRh: Definitely don’t like alphas who overrule everyone, always know best. Part of being strong is knowing you don’t know everything. #ufchat
10:12 pm rcmurphy: @shadowflame1974 That is when they come off as jerks. I’ve had a lot of practice watching guys trying to hide their pain & I use it. #UFchat
10:12 pm simonm223: RT @jimnduncan: It seems the ‘jerk’ aspect of Alphas is for the sole purpose of heroines to dismantle over course of story. #ufchat
10:13 pm SpiceBites: Hi guys and gals. Glad I made it for the mantalk! #ufchat
10:13 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat If you want a good stereotype Alpha male, look at how messed up Laurell Hamilton made her Richard. (Anita Blake books) #UFchat
10:13 pm shadowflame1974: Q2 #UFchat CEMurphy’s Captain Morrison, Love that one
10:13 pm psynde: @UFchat well Terrible for instance Unholy ghosts def an alpha but broken too #UFchat
10:13 pm simonm223: @ufchat there is also that dominant men can be jerks. But that’s not necessarily the case when alpha male is jerky protagonist. #ufchat
10:14 pm SpiceBites: I’ll take a strong man, without a side of jerk, plz. #ufchat
10:14 pm AnassaRh: Q2: *wanders off to bookshelf* #ufchat
10:14 pm psynde: Sorry typing on a iPod.. Issues #UFchat
10:15 pm jimnduncan: If you’re going to have a ‘jerk’ alpha, you better give sympathetic reasons for being so and make it clear to the reader. #ufchat
10:15 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Come back! LOL #ufchat
10:16 pm UF_Chat: OK what about the ‘big’ UF series? K.Harrisson, P. Briggs, C. Harris, J. Butcher? #ufchat
10:16 pm psynde: @jimnduncan yes exactly #UFchat
10:16 pm SpiceBites: Now Darkness and Frost in LKH’s Merry series are my idea of alphas #ufchat
10:17 pm UF_Chat: Q2a: So what’s a ‘strong man without a side of jerk’? How would you describe that? #ufchat
10:17 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Patricia Briggs Adam
10:17 pm rcmurphy: heh, I really need to read more. My brain is all wrapped up in my annoying boys. #UFchat
10:17 pm Book_Faery: @UF_Chat Love Adam from Mercy Thompson series. He’s an alpha, but he’s still a sweetheart #ufchat
10:17 pm AnassaRh: Q2: Good guys: Lord Maccon (Carriger), David Cassius (Barant), Zayvion (Monk), Tybalt (McGuire). #ufchat
10:17 pm psynde: @UF_Chat well yeah Harry Dresden but he’s barely an alpha.. He’s more hero by proxy #UFchat
10:17 pm simonm223: @jimnduncan he’s a control-freak who spirals into obsession with power until he has to be put down like a dog in the last act. #ufchat
10:17 pm rcmurphy: @SpiceBites Mmmm… that pair is yummy. #UFchat
10:17 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat both men have something to protect. Morrison a police station and a city
10:18 pm UF_Chat: Q2b: Does a bad boy an Alpha make? What?s the connection between alpha males and bad boys? #ufchat
10:18 pm AnassaRh: Q2: Ambiguous/sideline: Will in the Greywalker novels, Rhyzkahl in Rowland’s. #ufchat
10:18 pm shadowflame1974: #UFChat Adam a pack and a teenage daughter.
10:18 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Strong w/out side of jerk: Charles in P. Brigg’s Alpha & Omega #ufchat
10:18 pm SpiceBites: @rcmurphy πŸ™‚ Yeah that too. #ufchat
10:18 pm simonm223: A2A: That is a hero within genre fic – usually. Oh and a2: Protag – Roland in Dark Tower #ufchat
10:19 pm rcmurphy: Bad boys are angry to be angry unless there is a damn good reason I rarely see them as true alphas. #UFchat
10:19 pm AnassaRh: @UF_Chat Yes, I came back. Just needed some spellings. πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
10:19 pm UF_Chat: @psynde & he’s loner – alphas are leaders of group (sometimes rabble) -so Dresden can’t be a true alpha until he turns mentor/warden #ufchat
10:19 pm simonm223: A2b: Not necessarily; an alpha personality has more to do with control / leadership issues than general dickishness. #ufchat
10:19 pm AnassaRh: Ah yes, Butcher. I’d definitely call Dresden an alpha. #ufchat
10:20 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Q2b: not always if the bad boy can step up to the roll then they can be an alpha but mainly they are outcaste by nature
10:20 pm psynde: @UF_Chat yes exactly!!! #UFchat
10:20 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat ooh interesting point. So a loner can’t be an alpha? But what about attitudewise? #ufchat
10:20 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh At what point though? He doesn’t start that way – he’s a loner at the beginning (more on loners later) #ufchat
10:21 pm UF_Chat: S: The term ?alpha male? in UF comes mainly from writing werewolves & packs, based on wolf pack hierarchies (as understood at time). #ufchat
10:21 pm simonm223: @uf_chat how spoiler friendly are we in this group? #ufchat
10:21 pm psynde: @UF_Chat realizing I don’t read much with alpha males. Always want something new! #UFchat
10:22 pm UF_Chat: @simonm223 Assume most have read the big ones – maybe not recent bks to be on safe side. #ufchat
10:22 pm UF_Chat: Q3: How has this influenced how people see the ?alpha? in UF? #ufchat
10:22 pm psynde: @UF_Chat yes like Patti Briggs or lkh #UFchat
10:22 pm shadowflame1974: #UFChat the bad boy is mainly in it for his self. The
10:22 pm AnassaRh: Q2a: My definitions from earlier, I think. Strong, confident, willing to concede to others’ expertise. #ufchat
10:23 pm jimnduncan: @UF_Chat Hmmm, might disagree with that. I think Alpha is really more a mindset than actual structure requiring group to lead. #ufchat
10:23 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat The alpha has something to protect, even if it is one other person
10:23 pm rcmurphy: Wolves are snappy, use force to keep the pack in order. Alphas in UF are expected to be the same. #UFchat
10:24 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat I think a good alpha would have to balance out his need of being in control with being able to let one person handle an aspect
10:24 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan You’ll like the next question then – because alpha term in UF came from the wolves generally… I’ll ask now #ufchat
10:24 pm SpiceBites: RT @shadowflame1974: #UFchat The alpha has something to protect, even if it is one other person. LIKE! #ufchat
10:24 pm jimnduncan: @UF_Chat Really? I thought the Alpha term while certainly associated with wolves, is more generic from romance genre. #ufchat
10:24 pm AnassaRh: Yes. RT @jimnduncan:@UF_Chat Hmmm, might disagree. I think Alpha is rly more a mindset than actual structure requiring group to lead #ufchat
10:24 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Actually wolves are not snappy – not unless someone is challenging – (talk to me later – I’m up on biology/wolf research) #ufchat
10:25 pm LocoLuna: Agree! Sorry , lurking trouble with phone…RT @shadowflame1974: #UFchat The alpha has something to protect, even if it is one other person
10:25 pm J_GriffinB: emerges from pool of router agony #ufchat
10:25 pm simonm223: @shadowflame1974 I don’t think that’s universal. May be motvd by protectiveness but cn hv othr reasons for wanting to be in charge. #ufchat
10:26 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat My wolf stuff is outdated. lol I haven’t worked with them in a while since they became “too” popular. #UFchat
10:26 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat In good fiction, he’s a trope, in bad, he’s a charicature. #ufchat
10:26 pm AnassaRh: RT @shadowflame1974: #UFchat I think a good alpha would have to balance out his need of being in control with being able to let one person handle an aspect
10:26 pm SpiceBites: Q3A I think in uf the alpha male and heroine are on more equal terms, like Ilona Andrews’ series #ufchat
10:26 pm UF_Chat: So it looks like people consider alpha in UF = hero type more than leader/protector/general? #ufchat
10:27 pm J_GriffinB: caricature, pardon. #ufchat
10:27 pm UF_Chat: Q3b: What are some traits that might be mistaken for alpha-traits when in fact they may not be at all? #ufchat
10:27 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat It’s all about breeding, in the natural world. #ufchat
10:27 pm simonm223: Agreed. RT @J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat In good fiction, he’s a trope, in bad, he’s a charicature. #ufchat
10:28 pm AnassaRh: Q3: Can’t speak for others, but I certainly tend to view alphas as stereotypical alpha wolves. #ufchat
10:28 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat asshole. #ufchat
10:28 pm AnassaRh: Q3a: Well, UF alphas tend to all be jerks? lol. #ufchat
10:28 pm simonm223: @UF_Chat Not necessarily. Heroes are heroes, alphas are alphas. They may or may not overlap. #ufchat
10:29 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Not always hero, but accessory to the herone. A complication to the major plot. have you dealt with an alpha personality? πŸ˜€
10:29 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB So you’re saying alpha = most likely have genes passed on? Wins right to procreate? Not all based on fights tho. #ufchat
10:29 pm jimnduncan: Alphas want control, to lead, protect, know they’re competent to do so, and don’t mind telling everyone so, often to their detriment #ufchat
10:29 pm shadowflame1974: Q3b #UFchat any leadership role. Just because they lead does not make them alpha
10:29 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Think is general agreement UF alphas need a revisit for sure. Stereotypes still dominate the genre. #ufchat
10:29 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Q3b: Nora Roberts actually used alpha charecteristics to create a side char. who wasn’t an alpha hero. In Blue Smoke maybe #ufchat
10:30 pm rcmurphy: @shadowflame1974 Try working with a group of sword fighters. They ALL want to be alpha. #UFchat
10:30 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan To their detriment? (that doesn’t seem like an alpha trait to me personally) Can you explain? #ufchat
10:30 pm jimnduncan: Of course, they must learn to let others be competent as well, but to me, this doesn’t mean they have to be asshats. #ufchat
10:30 pm AnassaRh: @UF_Chat Don’t think hero and leader have to be different roles. I’d look up to a good leader or protector. And heros CAN be betas. #ufchat
10:30 pm JulieeJohnsonn: Urban fantasy readers & writers, in case you don’t know: #UFchat is on right now!
10:30 pm J_GriffinB: #ufchat God save me from this router!
10:31 pm SpiceBites: @jimnduncan know they r competent or auto assume? #ufchat
10:31 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy He – I have worked with sword fighters – the strategists are usually top dog not the strongest guy. #ufchat
10:31 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh yay betas! More on them soon. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:31 pm jimnduncan: @UF_Chat because the tend to come off as selfish blowhards if they do. #ufchat
10:31 pm shadowflame1974: @rcmurphy #UFchat true. I work with RealEstate agents. egadds touchy sorts they can be
10:32 pm jimnduncan: Ok, back in a min, got dinner cooking here. #ufchat
10:32 pm UF_Chat: Q4: What are the reasons kick-ass girls seek out/are drawn to alpha-types, beyond the obvious tough girl needs a tough guy to match? #ufchat
10:32 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat Which is why I was the leader for a while. The boys HATED that. *snickers* #UFchat
10:32 pm J_GriffinB: #ufchat Wannabees often use the excuse, “I’m an asshole because I am in charge.” That is what I meant by asshole comment.
10:32 pm simonm223: @uf_chat that’s because the strongest guy may get stabbed first. And then it doesn’t matter how strong you are. #ufchat
10:32 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Woot! I’m for a good Beta too πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:32 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan The best alphas I’ve seen are very good at manipulating people tho – don’t tend to put self in danger unless protecting #ufchat
10:32 pm JulieeJohnsonn: Sorry I’m late…gather topic is heros + alphas? Defining each? Personally, think hero = alpha…a stereotype hard 2 break out of #UFchat
10:33 pm shadowflame1974: @SpiceBites #UFchat Usually they gain the role through fighting or feats of strength. I would say not an auto assume
10:33 pm rcmurphy: Hard-ass women in UF need someone to take the protector role so they can become “feminine” again. #UFchat
10:33 pm UF_Chat: @simonm223 Agreed. (I miss my swordplay!) #ufchat
10:33 pm ParkerXL: There’s some really strange views of what makes a leader going on in #UFChat… Just saying.
10:34 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Nice point! Females do tend to worry about losing feminine side when they get very tough. #ufchat
10:34 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat usually heroine will have a problem she can’t face alone.
10:34 pm J_GriffinB: can someone please give me the #ufchat url real quick.
10:34 pm Book_Faery: This RT @rcmurphy: Hard-ass women in UF need someone to take the protector role so they can become “feminine” again. #UFchat
10:34 pm SpiceBites: @shadowflame1974 True, but I like stories where the heroine or sm1 comes up w/a smarter solution over aggressiveness #ufchat
10:34 pm simonm223: a4: what @rcmurphy said. #ufchat
10:35 pm simonm223: RT @rcmurphy: Hard-ass women in UF need someone to take the protector role so they can become “feminine” again. #UFchat
10:35 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @RCMurphy But I like the ‘hard ass’ type so much! Why R they so compelling? ‘Feminine’ = wimp 2 me…dunno why #ufchat
10:35 pm AnassaRh: @rcmurphy @UF_Chat Do all tough women want to be feminine, though? Would think some are tough because they want to, not need to be. #ufchat
10:35 pm UF_Chat: @ParkerXL Interesting isn’t it? But in fiction we can try on all the different ideas without repercussions…thank goodness. #ufchat
10:35 pm UF_Chat: Q4a: What are some insecurities on the guy?s side that might draw him to her? Vice versa? #ufchat
10:35 pm simonm223: @ufchat The one thing I really miss about my kwoon is (aside from friends there) was the presence of other sword nuts to spar with #ufchat
10:35 pm rcmurphy: @JulieeJohnsonn I like hard-ass women, but what sells is when the women find a man to protect them so they can be a girl again. #UFchat
10:36 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Not ‘be feminine’ as such but they don’t want to be considered ‘men with boobs’ either. #ufchat
10:36 pm rcmurphy: @AnassaRh Again, I revert to Anita Blake. She’s referred to as the male in her relationships, the protector as well…. #UFchat
10:37 pm simonm223: @AnassaRh when we look at heroines in #UF we see a lot who are presented as wanting to be feminine. Sookie Stackhouse for instance. #ufchat
10:37 pm J_GriffinB: @rcmurphy alpha females exist, and can be harder on betas than any male #ufchat
10:37 pm SpiceBites: RT @rcmurphy: Hard-ass women in UF need someone to take the protector role…Carrie Vaughn has an essay on this #ufchat
10:37 pm rcmurphy: Some women enjoy being a hard-ass. (btw my background is para-rom. I tend to mis UF with it. Sorry!) #UFchat
10:37 pm rbwood: @RCMurphy I need you to be my crit partner for my UF. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:37 pm UF_Chat: @JulieeJohnsonn Feminine in this instance is the femaleness vs the maleness – not about girly things I think. (see ‘men with boobs’) #ufchat
10:37 pm AnassaRh: Certainly a reason. @shadowflame1974 #UFchat usually heroine will have a problem she can’t face alone.
10:38 pm simonm223: @rcmurphy has hit it on the head. At the same time making the woman tough lets her approach the relationship on a more even footing #ufchat
10:38 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Insecurities: heroine will get hurt, lose the pack, alpha not strong enough, even the appearance of another alpha makes good confli
10:38 pm AnassaRh: I’ll agree to that. RT @UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Not ‘be feminine’ as such but they don’t want to be considered ‘men with boobs’ either. #ufchat
10:38 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy I couldn’t find the whole essay by itself – was part of another big topic. If you find pls link? #ufchat
10:38 pm rcmurphy: @simonm223 Exactly. If your UF has a relationship & the woman isn’t strong the alpha will overwhelm her & make it more romance. #UFchat
10:39 pm UF_Chat: Q4b: Is the kick-ass girls attraction to bad boys the same, similar or completely different to the attraction to alpha types? #ufchat
10:39 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat I didn’t have the essay… Uhh… Quick, who had the essay??? #UFchat
10:39 pm AnassaRh: @simonm223 I’m not saying no woman wants to be feminine. Just saying “woman needs man to be woman” is a little generalistic. #ufchat
10:39 pm UF_Chat: RT @rcmurphy: @simonm223 Exactly. If your UF has a relationship & the woman isn’t strong the alpha will overwhelm her & make it more romance. #UFchat
10:40 pm SpiceBites: Speaking of female alphas…P. Briggs’ Omega character, Anna, is very interesting #ufchat
10:40 pm jimnduncan: @rcmurphy which wouldn’t be bad if the protection didn’t usurp her ability to still kick ass. #ufchat
10:40 pm rcmurphy: Hard-ass women like bad boys so they have someone to protect. Bad boys are often broken & need fixing. Like an old car. #UFchat
10:40 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat you mean traits: rugged individualist hard ass female vs. soft, emotional, needs to be protected female…. #ufchat
10:40 pm SpiceBites: RT @rcmurphy: @UF_Chat I didnt have the essay… Uhh… Quick, who had the essay??? Sorry, was commenting on your tweet #ufchat
10:40 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Insecurities of heroine: has to do it all (supermom conflict) no time for self, no relaxation
10:41 pm J_GriffinB: @rcmurphy Codependency, anyone? #ufchat
10:41 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Never mind – I love Carrie Vaughn’s essays/treatises on UF! Very good – even the ones from years ago still applicable. #ufchat
10:41 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @RCMurphy That’s exactly the kind of formula I like! The other way around makes me cringe…#ufchat
10:42 pm rcmurphy: @J_GriffinB Exactly. The woman gets her crutch so she’s always a hard-ass & the bad boy gets someone to take the blame for them. #UFchat
10:42 pm SpiceBites: ESSAY: Author Carrie Vaughn had an essay http://www.archetypewriting.com/articles/writing/CV_urban-fantasy2.htm #ufchat
10:42 pm AnassaRh: Yes. RT @shadowflame1974: #UFchat Insecurities of heroine: has to do it all (supermom conflict) no time for self, no relaxation
10:42 pm UF_Chat: Q5: How would you define tough? How is it different to ?alpha?? #ufchat
10:43 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat am currently reading Carrie Vaughn…am curious about the treatise you are referring to! #ufchat
10:43 pm simonm223: A4a: Veering slightly out of #uf and into #sci-fi but as my protag comes into his own he has a lot of doubt about his humanity. #ufchat
10:43 pm UF_Chat: Q5a: How about dominant? Is that the same as Alpha or a different thing again? #ufchat
10:43 pm UF_Chat: @SpiceBites Thank you! Love her essays. #ufchat
10:43 pm J_GriffinB: The issue is a biological one. If your alpha is no longer living, or never was one, should he really be an alpha? #ufchat
10:44 pm SpiceBites: @JulieeJohnsonn Just posted a link to the essay #ufchat
10:44 pm UF_Chat: @JulieeJohnsonn On her blog she has a lot of very good stuff – from years ago & more recent too. #ufchat
10:44 pm simonm223: A4b: Similar but not entirely the same. A bad boy may not have the force of personality of an alpha male. #ufchat
10:44 pm bonn1511: #ufchat in my UF the woman is strong and saves the guy but he is not a whimp #ufchat
10:44 pm leapetra: sorry only can stop in to say hi #ufchat
10:44 pm AnassaRh: Q5: Tough: Able to go further, do more, endure more before being overwhelmed. #ufchat
10:44 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat supermom tendencies will bring in the alpha in a man. Make her share the burden.
10:45 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat tough=survivor Alpha=domination in order to bring about next generation. Need to be tough to survive as beta #ufchat
10:45 pm simonm223: A4c: returning to A4a, those insecurities help the his partner to decide that she wants to be in a relationship with her. #ufchat
10:45 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB You mean if he can’t pass his traits on – eg making another vamp doesn’t count unless he passes on strength or similar? #ufchat
10:45 pm AnassaRh: Tough has nothing to do with heroism or leadership. My antag is way tougher than my hero. #ufchat
10:45 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra *waves* How did book signing go? #ufchat
10:45 pm simonm223: A4c (cont): She sees him do some awful things and the fact that he’s not ok with that resolves some of her conflict. #ufchat
10:45 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat dominant is a part of alpha. cant be #1 dog if someone can bluff you.
10:46 pm SpiceBites: @simonm223 True: Morrelli is a Bad boy, Ranger is Alpha #ufchat
10:46 pm jimnduncan: tough for me is just the ability to endure in the face of hardship/conflict. #ufchat
10:46 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat The store was dead due to a festival down the street. Sold 2 copies so really good #ufchat
10:46 pm UF_Chat: @shadowflame1974 Wish that were true in real life too – seen too many supermoms with partners letting them take care of it all. 😦 #ufchat
10:46 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra Congrats! #ufchat
10:46 pm simonm223: A5a: Say rather control and then it’d be an integral part of an alpha personality. Control may be internal or external. #ufchat
10:46 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @SpiceBites many thanks! have looked it up! #ufchat
10:47 pm UF_Chat: Q6: What part does physical strength & fighting/violence play in an Alpha?s world? Does it have to? #ufchat
10:47 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat When calling him an alpha, yes a writer does have to consider this. #ufchat
10:47 pm AnassaRh: Q5a: Dominant is definitely an alpha trait. #ufchat
10:47 pm SpiceBites: @leapetra Congrats on the sales! Every copy sold adds up πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:47 pm rcmurphy: (sorry had to take a snack break. Starting to get a headache. I blame alpha male egos. lol) #UFchat
10:47 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat A true alpha does not have to use violence within his social pack. He dominates within by personality, outside (cont) #ufchat
10:48 pm shadowflame1974: @UF_Chat #UFchat oh i know to my own sorrow 😦 but better now
10:48 pm J_GriffinB: he has to take whatever phys action required to retain position against outsiders. #ufchat
10:48 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh I should have added resources about choleric personalities & leader traits but worried we’d get into politics… #ufchat
10:48 pm simonm223: A6: In Genre fiction it’s going to play a role. Simple as that. Whether #Fantasy #scifi, #horror or #UF there will be conflict. #ufchat
10:48 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @SpiceBites Agreed. Ranger just has that extra element of badness/toughness/edginess to him that Morrelli does not #ufchat
10:49 pm shadowflame1974: Q6 #ufchat it has a lot to do with it. If you can’t keep your role you are no longer alpha. No protection from others taking what you hav
10:49 pm simonm223: A6 cont: and that conflict will, more often than not, have a physical component. #ufchat
10:49 pm rcmurphy: My alphas need to be skilled in fighting. That is because I gave them jobs tht require they protect someone. It’s not a social thing #UFchat
10:49 pm AnassaRh: Point! RT @simonm223: Say rather control & then it’d B an integral part of an alpha personality. Control may B internal or external. #ufchat
10:49 pm J_GriffinB: @rcmurphy expressing ego is not the alpha’s true nature. The alpha knows what it is, and needn’t pump up. #ufchat
10:50 pm UF_Chat: Q6a: How physically capable/dominant do they have to be? #ufchat
10:51 pm leapetra: Best leader example ever, Brigadier from Dr. Who. He would never send his men in if he wasn’t willing to take the risk as well. #ufchat
10:51 pm UF_Chat: Q6b: What about bullying through to abuse? Is that ever acceptable from alphas? #ufchat
10:51 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @J_GriffinB Agreed! Alpha is not about ego. #ufchat
10:51 pm simonm223: @rcmurphy I’m having fun with my most alpha-male character. But he’s an antagonist so I’m able to take some of the brakes off. #ufchat
10:51 pm AnassaRh: Q6: Fairly big part, I think. Alphas will be strong and fight when they need to. Will not see a completely passive alpha. #ufchat
10:51 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat that depends entirely on the shitty circumstance you are going to put them rhough. #ufchat
10:52 pm leatherzebra: The woes of being a ruler/alpha makes for great conflict in UF. Leadership vs power mongering, etc. #ufchat
10:52 pm rcmurphy: @simonm223 I’m one of those hard-ass women. Writing my males tends to be a test of wills. lol #UFchat
10:52 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat some are lucky enough to have the physical traits to back them up (my character Steopa) yet they should not rely on it #ufchat
10:52 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Alpha is a leader, not the toughest person. I know lots of tough ppl who are still not leaders #ufchat
10:52 pm UF_Chat: @simonm223 Heh – funny about taking brakes off. Easier when tough don’t have to care about people. See @leatherzebra comment too. #ufchat
10:53 pm SpiceBites: Q6A OK, not uf, but have you read Ender’s Shadow? The MC def. not physically dom. but def. alpha #ufchat
10:53 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Alpha is like being a parent. It’s being responsible for the well being of many people, putting the family first #ufchat
10:53 pm simonm223: A6a: It depends on the nature of the world the story is set in. They should be able to back up their mental fortitude physically. #ufchat
10:53 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat again, healthy alpha won’t resort to this. Though one that feels they are being shorted in pack might certainly get evil. #ufchat
10:53 pm rcmurphy: Alphas that abuse lose the title. It is a socially given title. If they neglect or abuse those that gave it, they are sent packing. #UFchat
10:53 pm UF_Chat: Q7: Are those in charge ALWAYS Alphas? Should they be? #ufchat
10:54 pm simonm223: A6b: We expect it from antagonists. IF a protagonist acts that way we’re heading quickly down the path to anti-hero. #ufchat
10:54 pm SpiceBites: OMG, my hubby is cooking something & I’m tempted to runaway to the kitchen #ufchat
10:54 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat alphas seem2B in prime physical condition 2 start…tho that can change with conflict…then they overcome/transcend pain #ufchat
10:54 pm J_GriffinB: @leatherzebra Again, tough=ability to survive. Alpha=ability to pass genes on. got to be tougher to be beta and get to eat last. #ufchat
10:54 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat no. there are some in charge that got it through cunning and back handedness, #ufchat
10:54 pm AnassaRh: Q6a: Depends on indiv. char., but usually pretty capable. Might not have fight training, but can hold his own, eg. #ufchat
10:55 pm UF_Chat: Q8: Are there different kinds of Alphas? If so, describe and/or give examples. #ufchat
10:55 pm simonm223: @rcmurphy I think writing the opposite gender is often one of the harder tasks an author faces. #ufchat
10:55 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat However lots of people translate “alpha” into bad ass, tough guy, meanie, cruel, and out right bully. #ufchat
10:55 pm shadowflame1974: Q7 #UFchat No. Depening on the situation others might be in charge of aspects, but alpha knows what is going on
10:55 pm AnassaRh: I don’t think they need to be supremely dominant (ie. jerk), but need to be assured in their role. #ufchat
10:56 pm UF_Chat: Q8a: Common complaint is the ?metrosexual alpha?-always smells good, dresses well etc along with being tough. Too perfect.Thoughts? #ufchat
10:56 pm simonm223: @UF_Chat Even when they do care for others when they become blinded by circumstance and start acting on darker impulses… #ufchat
10:56 pm rcmurphy: @simonm223 Actually writing females is my weak point. My writing group will agree. I just don’t get how women think sometimes. #UFchat
10:56 pm J_GriffinB: @leapetra indeed, but are they alpha personalities or fakin’ till they make it? #ufchat
10:56 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra A lot of people were saying that at the beginning – is a reason alphas need a good look at by writers now. #ufchat
10:57 pm simonm223: A7: Not always. Absolutes are bad and should be avoided. But they are OFTEN alphas. #ufchat
10:57 pm SpiceBites: @UF_Chat Ex. Bean in Ender’s Shadow, Exley in L.A. Confidential –different type of alphas #ufchat
10:57 pm AnassaRh: Q6b: Never abuse! But I’ve seen dominant, alpha-type characters use it. Bullying, no, but teasing/cajoling, I can see. #ufchat
10:57 pm leatherzebra: @psynde Me too! I don’t like how a lot of authors translate alphas, and the heroine is always attracted to the alpha too. #ufchat
10:57 pm rcmurphy: Q8a: They have to have a flaw. If the inside is as flawless as the outside they are boring. Needs to be a balance to garner interest #UFchat
10:58 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @leatherzebra isn’t there good + bad alphas? both the hero & the villain? 1 is bully/cruel. Other is strong/confident. #ufchat
10:58 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat I’d like to see one with halitosis and bad hair one day. One thing that’s rarely seen in fiction is the alpha homosexual. #ufchat
10:58 pm simonm223: @rcmurphy I haven’t much trouble writing all kinds of different men but I’m not perfectly in touch with my anima at times. #ufchat
10:58 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @AnassaRh sometimes being smart ass adds to his/her charm, tho…but a smart ass isn’t the same as a jerk! #ufchat
10:59 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh ONe of complaints is MC females have (in past) taken abuse as part & parcel of being with alpha. Definite move against now #ufchat
10:59 pm UF_Chat: Q9: What about gay alpha males in mainstream UF. Are there any? Is there room for a gay alpha when the MC is female? #ufchat
10:59 pm HC_Palmquist: @RCMurphy @UF_Chat I’d like to see an alpha male who is nerdy or dresses scuzzy. #UFChat
10:59 pm simonm223: A8a: How many absolutely perfect people do you personally know? Probably not many. A 3d char has flaws. #ufchat
10:59 pm rcmurphy: @J_GriffinB I challenged myself this month & wrote a story starring 2 alpha homosexuals. It can work. #UFchat
11:00 pm rcmurphy: @HC_Palmquist You’d love my William. The man dresses like hell. It’s so cute! #UFchat
11:00 pm AnassaRh: No, not at all! RT @JulieeJohnsonn: @AnassaRh sometimes being smartass adds to charm, tho?but a smart ass isn’t the same as a jerk! #ufchat
11:00 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @J_GriffinB ha! agreed! but if U gave an alpha bad hair + bad breath…wouldn’t be an alpha! tried that 1nc, just not a ‘hero’ type #ufchat
11:00 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy I see it fine in GLBT lit but what about in mainstream? #ufchat
11:00 pm AnassaRh: Man, it’s hard trying to keep up with the #ufchat and answer questions too!
11:00 pm simonm223: @JulieeJohnsonn the villain can be strong and confident too… πŸ˜€ #ufchat
11:01 pm UF_Chat: We’re almost out of time & I have a TON of questions left – getting to betas & other bad boys. Want to continue next week? #ufchat
11:01 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat Mainstream actually needs a dose of gay, in my opinion. We’re so closeted. I would love to see alpha gays. #UFchat
11:01 pm SpiceBites: @J_GriffinB I’m thinking a gay alpha male boardroom shark would be an interesting character #ufchat
11:01 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat I know lots of alphas that are not big, strong outgoing types. They just have smassive personalities that push the psyche #ufchat
11:01 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh No kidding! I rarely catch every comment. #ufchat
11:01 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat alpha has to project he is in control at all times. parcel of the sterotype. He is not going to appear weak, disheveled at time
11:01 pm simonm223: @UF_Chat Margrave Royston…. but the book he turns up in is somewhat of a sausage fest. #ufchat
11:02 pm rcmurphy: J.R. Ward uses homosexuality in her Black Dagger Brotherhood books & was afraid to go on because of possible backlash. #UFchat
11:02 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy How do you think an alpha gay would work with a kick-ass MC female? #ufchat
11:02 pm AnassaRh: Q7: No, alphas aren’t always in charge, but they may want to be, and they probably have a high position at the least. #ufchat
11:02 pm shadowflame1974: #UFchat Betas next week? πŸ˜€
11:02 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB smassive? I like it! Going to use that word now. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:02 pm AnassaRh: Should alphas be in charge? Depends on the situation, and the alpha. Sometimes other traits may be needed more. #ufchat
11:03 pm SpiceBites: ANother vote for betas next week! #ufchat
11:03 pm rcmurphy: @UF_Chat It would still be a partnership just like with a straight alpha male. But the romance aspect wouldn’t be there to muss plot #UFchat
11:03 pm UF_Chat: I have a TON of interesting questions we don’t have time for – that’s one vote yes… @shadowflame1974 #ufchat
11:03 pm jimnduncan: Ha! Poor betas got left out, eh? #ufchat
11:03 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat Quite handsomely. He could be a challenge to her sexually too. #ufchat
11:04 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @UF_Chat yes 2 betas next week! Great topic! #ufchat
11:04 pm J_GriffinB: gaywere: look at handsome man. gayheroine: look at the handsome man. Isawhimfirst! #ufchat
11:04 pm jimnduncan: I’m all for a beta chat. #ufchat
11:04 pm rcmurphy: We should continue next week & give the betas their due. They have an important part as well. #UFchat
11:04 pm AnassaRh: Q8: Def different types. Physical alpha, mental alpha. Also assured alpha, who may not be outstanding in any field, but good at many #ufchat
11:04 pm simonm223: If folks have questions about fight related stuff my non-fiction work is almost all #martialarts related, and I’m happy to help btw. #ufchat
11:04 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan I only got half way through my questions.. but offering part 2 next week. #ufchat
11:05 pm SpiceBites: @simonm223 Cool! Thanx πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:05 pm AnassaRh: And good! RT @UF_Chat: ONe of complaints is MC females have taken abuse as part & parcel of being w alpha. Definite move against now #ufchat
11:05 pm shadowflame1974: RT @J_GriffinB: gaywere: look at handsome man.gayheroine: look at the handsome man.Isawhimfirst! #ufchat>> hahaha!
11:05 pm leatherzebra: @JulieeJohnsonn Absolutely. Alphas can be the best thing to happen to someone, or the worst. Kitty & the Midnight Hour=BAD alpha #ufchat
11:05 pm simonm223: RT @rcmurphy: We should continue next week & give the betas their due. They have an important part as well. #UFchat
11:05 pm AnassaRh: Me too! RT @HC_Palmquist: @RCMurphy @UF_Chat I’d like to see an alpha male who is nerdy or dresses scuzzy. #UFChat
11:05 pm psynde: @leatherzebra drives me nuts!! #UFchat
11:05 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB I like that challenge to her sexuality! XLnt! #Ufchat
11:06 pm J_GriffinB: @simonm223 and I can also help, as I have been in many hand to hand street-fights. #ufchat
11:06 pm AnassaRh: Q8a: Well, if metro alpha’s written well, has other flaws, good reasons for being metro? Why not? #ufchat
11:06 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat My ideal alpha is parental, like the tough but loving dad, or the gruff but caring grandpa #ufchat
11:06 pm UF_Chat: OK – it’s decided – betas and more bad boys NEXT WEEK! There’s more to betas than meets the eye.. πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
11:07 pm J_GriffinB: @leatherzebra grey alpha is a blast: Druss The Legend #ufchat
11:07 pm AnassaRh: Continue next week? Yes! And I think I’ll be “live” for that one, too! #ufchat
11:07 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat On a hero level the alpha should be a listener, a decision maker & strong, but not a bully #ufchat
11:07 pm simonm223: @J_GriffinB IBeen in fewer of those but I’ve lost count of the number of controlled fighting situations I’ve been in long, long ago. #ufchat
11:07 pm UF_Chat: Writing fighting? Offers of experienced help here from @J_GriffinB & @simonm223 (also my article tweeted earlier as a primer) #ufchat
11:07 pm JulieeJohnsonn: thanks everyone! great chat! have a great night all! #ufchat
11:08 pm AnassaRh: Q9: Can’t say I’ve read any gay alpha males, but I’ve run into several gay females. Definitely would like to see gay men (any role). #ufchat
11:08 pm rcmurphy: Thank you for an awesome chat @UF_Chat! #UFchat
11:08 pm J_GriffinB: pushes @simonm223 trying to get in front. Mine have all been in the course of my duties, I promise. #ufchat
11:08 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Good alpha weaknesses? Over worrying, over managing the pack, putting the pack above immediate family #ufchat
11:09 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Turns out that what real wolf alphas are like. Packs are almost always families are rarely fight internally physically #ufchat
11:09 pm simonm223: @UF_Chat decent material in your article. Would point out that adrenaline responses can be trained. #ufchat
11:09 pm shadowflame1974: Have a great evening everyone #UFchat
11:09 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat I could even see an alcoholic alpha being interesting, story-wise #ufchat
11:09 pm AnassaRh: Actually, now that I think of it, suspect I may have geeky alpha secondary character. Hmm. #ufchat
11:09 pm UF_Chat: @rcmurphy Thank you! Loved your input. #ufchat
11:09 pm jimnduncan: @leatherzebra that whole listening skill seems to always be a trait needing development, but probably more male than alpha issue. #ufchat
11:10 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat I think that sounds like something I said earlier πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
11:10 pm UF_Chat: That?s a wrap for #UFchat today! Challenging the stereotypes is always interesting. Next week Pt 2 – betas & other bad boys! #ufchat
11:10 pm jimnduncan: Any UF stories out there where heroine’s relationship with hero turns him from beta into alpha? #ufchat
11:10 pm UF_Chat: Some resources on the topic of alpha males and bad boys in UF tweeted next: #ufchat
11:11 pm J_GriffinB: I must apologize for my #routerpain #bloodspoutingfrommyears. #ufchat
11:11 pm AnassaRh: @shadowflame1974 But what if alpha was in a culture where being a snappy dresser would lower opinions? Thinking of geeks here. #ufchat
11:11 pm UF_Chat: AAR Forum discussion ?Gotta Get Away From the Alpha Males!? ? Big discussion on what is alpha & more http://bit.ly/99IgvF #ufchat
11:12 pm leatherzebra: @jimnduncan Yes, but males aren’t the only alphas. Packs always have a dominant female too πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:12 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan Can’t think off-hand though Harry Dresden definitely grows into an alpha, shouldering more responsibility etc #ufchat
11:12 pm UF_Chat: Talechasing Podcast: (audio) from Dragoncon 2008 by @kimidreams Why we love/hate alphas & bad boys http://bit.ly/br4UY7 #ufchat
11:13 pm AnassaRh: RT @leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Good alpha weaknesses? Over worrying, over managing the pack, putting the pack above immediate family #ufchat
11:14 pm J_GriffinB: @leatherzebra yep. #ufchat
11:14 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Also, I’m tired of totally dreamy heroes. How about attractive, but REALLY wonderful personality wise instead? #ufchat
11:14 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Ye -sort of- seems wolf pairs are like male & female sides of an alpha together. Fascinating (I do animal studies too) #ufchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: ?My Uber Alpha Male? by @Abigail_ATUF http://bit.ly/9V5kuz (Personal Note: I consider Spike & Kisten betas though…) #ufchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: Ah, the alpha male. No thanks. by Wendy Palmer http://bit.ly/dslgvn #ufchat
11:16 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Yes – lets make them more solidly real and believable! #ufchat
11:16 pm UF_Chat: Announcement next ? if you want to promote your UF posts, book or anything else UF related now is the time! #ufchat
11:16 pm AnassaRh: Plz! RT @leatherzebra: Also,I’m tired of totally dreamy heroes. How about attractive, but REALLY wonderful personality wise instead? #ufchat
11:17 pm UF_Chat: Got a topic you want to chat about? Let me know! I?ll add it to the list & maybe even bump up the chat-date for it. ? #ufchat
11:18 pm UF_Chat: If you wish to highlight a UF release by an author here on Twitter from the last week let me know & I?ll promote it. Just @inkgypsy #ufchat
11:18 pm UF_Chat: I’m slowly making a list of UF authors on Twitter on blog site. Please suggest more to @inkgypsy (that?s me in regular tweet time) #ufchat
11:18 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Richard in LKH’s book is an example, he started out as strong & responsible, but then fell apart into bad alpha #ufchat
11:18 pm simonm223: Remember that writer’s koan: Perfect is the enemy of good. Perfect characters are BORING and have no room for development. #ufchat
11:19 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Something interesting could be done with this, but it won’t be. #ufchat
11:20 pm UF_Chat: NEXT WEEK: Pt 2 – Alphas, betas, bad boys and other tough stuff in writing UF males. #ufchat
11:20 pm AnassaRh: Attending #UFChat in real time was great! I look forward to attending more?starting next week!
11:21 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra You mean something interesting could be done by LKH but won’t be? I’ve been disappointed for so long now. 😦 #ufchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: RT @simonm223: Remember that writer’s koan: Perfect is the enemy of good. Perfect characters are BORING and have no room for development. #ufchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: @UF_Chat lights out. πŸ˜‰ Transcript available on the #UFchat blog in 36hrs-ish, allowing for late comments. Just use the hashtag. #ufchat
11:22 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Yay! You’re shifts change? #ufchat
11:23 pm UF_Chat: @AnassaRh Your not you’re! Ack – this typo is a recent development. Don’t llike it! #ufchat
11:24 pm inkgypsy: RT @UF_Chat: That?s a wrap for #UFchat today! Challenging the stereotypes is always interesting. Next week Pt 2 – betas & other bad boys! #ufchat
11:24 pm Val_Fiction: RT @UF_Chat: ?My Uber Alpha Male? by @Abigail_ATUF http://bit.ly/9V5kuz (Personal Note: I consider Spike & Kisten betas though…) #ufchat
11:25 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat I wouldn’t deem Dresden as an alpha. He’s too independent. Alpha denotes group dynamics. #ufchat
11:26 pm simonm223: @uf_chat That’s my one big problem with Tolkien: if not for Gollum all the antagonists would be perfect; perfectly evil #ufchat
11:26 pm leatherzebra: @psynde Have you read Rachel Vincent’s Werecat series? many good alpha males there. & some bad ones too #ufchat
11:26 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Think he develops more that way in later books -once he’s a warden, has a protege, looks after Jr wardens etc but yeah #ufchat
11:28 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Exactly. LKH seems to want to make Richard out to be the bad guy, no interest in “rescuing” him. #ufchat
11:28 pm simonm223: RT @UF_Chat: @ He develops more that way in later books -once he’s a warden, has a protege, looks after Jr wardens etc but yeah #ufchat
11:28 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat But souldn’t you see an intervention, pulling Richard away from asshole Anita addict zone and back to Boy scout? #ufchat
11:30 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Honestly didn’t stay with it that long – ended up such a mess I stopped caring. That’s the true failure for me. 😦 #ufchat
11:31 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Strength & power, dislike of taking orders can be taken as alpha traits. but alpha=taking care of others #ufchat
11:32 pm J_GriffinB: I just want to say one thing more: Pheremones. Dead dudes no pheremones. Weres must be shedding em enough to kill the allergic #ufchat
11:32 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Alphas biologically are the best providers in the pack, but strength can be confused for provider. Girls like providers #ufchat
11:33 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Agree – the responsibility thing important – like parent taking responsibility/outside consequences for child’s action #ufchat
11:33 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat He could be worried that she’s using him, or is just a power player herself #ufchat
11:33 pm simonm223: ZOMG ROTFLMFAO!!!!! RT @J_GriffinB: Pheremones. Dead dudes no pheremones. Weres must be shedding em enough to kill the allergic #ufchat
11:35 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Child will get disciplined later if is good parent though Note: discipline does not have to = violence. #ufchat
11:35 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Tough is enduring. Tough is doing what’s right when its not what’s easy. Making the hard choices. #ufchat
11:35 pm UF_Chat: @J_GriffinB Next week! And thanks for the input. πŸ™‚ I’ll bring my extra fighting questions to you if I have any. #ufchat
11:36 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra Agree on tough definition. #ufchat
11:36 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Alphas would be the ones to defend the pack against outside packs, and things like abusive non-pack lovers #ufchat
11:36 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Yes! #ufchat
11:36 pm UF_Chat: OK definitely going dark now – my family has been very patient with me hanging out in #UFchat for so long today! #ufchat
11:37 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat And yes, some bullying is acceptable, when it’s not the alpha demanding their way, but the pack mate stand up for itself #ufchat
11:38 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat ie Member has abusive ex. Won’t stand up. Alpha making them stand up for themselves instead of just being defended by alpha #ufchat
11:38 pm simonm223: @leatherzebra I’d prefer characters in fiction to be people and not wild canines. #justsaying #ufchat
11:38 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat …might feel like bullying, but it’s not. #ufchat
11:40 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Metro alpha is a reflection of the times. Used to be that everyone wanted gruff hairy manly men (Burt Renyolds) #ufchat
11:41 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Now everyone wants Ryan Renyolds #ufchat
11:41 pm inkgypsy: @leatherzebra So more the tough love which isn’t bullying at all. Hard necessary lessons. #UFchat
11:45 pm UF_Chat: @leatherzebra LOL Not everyone (but I know what you mean…) #ufchat
11:47 pm simonm223: @inkygypsy even the “monsters” in our stories should be people. Vamps, weres, pennywises, etc. are reflections of human things. #ufchat.
11:51 pm J_GriffinB: Rolling out another evening of overeating at fine restaruant: Flour+Water. but first: http://www.sfinsf.org/ #scifichat #ufchat
September 12, 2010
12:01 am shadowflame1974: @AnassaRh #UFchat then he would appear appropriately. He just has to have the image of bieing in control πŸ™‚
12:04 am UF_Chat: @simonm223 Agree – my beef is UF often so far into fantasy leaves humans behind. Like UF due to real world influence/base. #ufchat
12:05 am UF_Chat: @simonm223 And yes – monsters should either be human reflections or show us the monsters in ourselves. #ufchat
12:25 am rixshep: @leatherzebra re: alpha=taking care of others, is how it shld be, but corruption of it makes alpha=being on top (pride). #ufchat
12:28 am leatherzebra: @inkgypsy Exactly. #ufchat
12:28 am leatherzebra: And the corruption of the alpha position makes for GREAT story conflict. #ufchat
12:30 am leatherzebra: @UF_Chat I would LOVE to see a gay alpha. I think that they could be naturals at the whole thing. #ufchat
2:39 am tasmin21: Had a good day at Renn Fest today. Missed #UFChat, though. Sorry guys.
3:16 am dystophil: Awww, missed #ufchat today, because um…I was sleeping…
3:31 am rixshep: @leatherzebra Heh! True, good story. But in real life, corrupt alphas are a pain in the …well, you know. πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
8:55 am TheMonsterBlogs: Didn’t make it to #UFChat after all – feel asleep but did have cool nightmare that will probable be UF so not all bad πŸ™‚
8:58 am TheMonsterBlogs: Is there a transcript #ufchat ?
9:36 am Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat Fell asleep before chat again – sigh. #UFchat #ufchat
12:49 pm HP4Writers: RT @simonm223: @inkygypsy even the “monsters” in our stories should be people. Vamps, weres, pennywises, etc. are reflections of human things. #ufchat.
12:50 pm HP4Writers: RT @simonm223: The opposite also holds true though. Even a truly flawed person should have some grain of basic humanity. #ufchat
September 13, 2010
2:08 am inkgypsy: @TheMonsterBlogs Transcript should be up late tonight (barring zombies or apocalypses). #UFchat
5:18 am inkgypsy: Last chance to add comments to the #UFchat transcript! TOPIC: Alpha Males & Bad Boys of UF (Pt 1). Just use the hashtag. πŸ™‚
jolantru: Too many Alpha Males and Bad Boys. I want to see a geek. #UFchat
inkgypsy: @jolantru Geek as love interest? Leader of the pack? MC? Other? #UFchat (& how do you define geek – everyone a little different)

jolantru: @inkgypsy All. *lol* Geek – bookish, not that masculine (no rippling 6 pec). #UFchat

AnassaRh: Can anyone help her? #ufchat RT @silviamg: Can anyone recommend sites/bloggers who review urban fantasy?
TheMonsterBlogs: @inkgypsy Those darstadly zombies – they are always bothering us which is why we have a sword over the fireplace :/ #UFChat – thanks πŸ™‚
inkgypsy: @silviamg UF review sites: All Things Urban Fantasy, SciFi Guy, Dirty Sexy Books, Dark Faerie Tales, Sara’s Urban Fantasy Blog #UFchat
jolantru: RT @inkgypsy: @silviamg UF review sites: All Things Urban Fantasy, SciFi Guy, Dirty Sexy Books, Dark Faerie Tales, Sara’s Urban Fantasy Blog #UFchat

___________________________________

END OF TRANSCRIPT FOR SEPTEMBER 11th, 2010

Next week:

PART TWO: Alphas, Betas, Bad Boys, Heroes & Anti-Heroes in Urban Fantasy

Feel free to add thoughts and resources during the week as you think them or find them – just use the #UFchat hashtag so I can find them and add them to the discussion & transcript.

The β€œPublished UF authors on Twitter” page for the blog (check the link at the very top of the page) is slowly growing (there are a LOT of UF authors on Twitter!) and it’s and linked it to a list on Twitter for easy following.

If you see someone you think should be on there, there’s a good chance I just haven’t gotten to adding them yet BUT please always feel free to add suggestions by @-ing @inkgypsy and I’ll add them to the list ASAP.

Stay tuned to @UF_Chat on Twitter for countdown’s and updates.

See you next week!

Gypsy (@inkgypsy)


Transcript for September 4, 2010: Roasting the UF Genre – Pet Peeves & Wish Lists (Round 2)

Continued from the popular and very busy chat last week – Part II of Roasting the UF Genre (and what we want to see in the future)

Once again, writers especially will find this one a useful resource. :)

TODAY’S TOPIC: Roasting the UF –Genre The Good, the Bad & the Untapped: Urban Fantasy Pet Peeves & Wish Lists

7:00 pm UF_Chat: Today in #UFchat we continue to roast the UF genre till it’s nice & tasty! Got pet peeves? Bring along to pepper up our chat! 3pmPST/6pmEST
7:00 pm inkgypsy: Today in #UFchat we continue to roast the UF genre till it’s nice & tasty! Got pet peeves? Bring along to pepper up our chat! 3pmPST/6pmEST
7:00 pm rcmurphy: RT @UF_Chat: Today in #UFchat we continue to roast the UF genre till it’s nice & tasty! Got pet peeves? Bring along to pepper up our chat! 3pmPST/6pmEST
7:39 pm Daylilie222: RT @inkgypsy: Today in #UFchat we continue to roast the UF genre till it’s nice & tasty! Got pet peeves? Bring along to pepper up our chat! 3pmPST/6pmEST
8:00 pm UF_Chat: 2 hrs till we get out our goggles & dissecting forks again in #UFchat today! Pet peeves at 3pm PST/6pmEST Getting to the meaty parts today!
8:00 pm inkgypsy: 2 hrs till we get out our goggles & dissecting forks again in #UFchat today! Pet peeves at 3pm PST/6pmEST Getting to the meaty parts today!
8:04 pm SallyJCollins: …2 hrs till we get out our goggles & dissecting forks again in #UFchat today! Pet peeves at 3pm PST/6pmEST Getting to the meaty par…
8:05 pm Amanahl: …..2 hrs till we get out our goggles & dissecting forks again in #UFchat today! Pet peeves at 3pm PST/6pmEST Getting to the meaty p…
8:13 pm inkgypsy: @Daylilie222 Just seeing your email, no emailS, (LOL) I’ll have to look again properly after #UFchat is over and get back to you then on it.
9:00 pm UF_Chat: 1 hour till #UFchat! Bring your roasting forks (or sporks) – we’re digging into UF genre pet peeves – the meaty ones today! 3pm PST/6pm EST
9:00 pm inkgypsy: 1 hour till #UFchat! Bring your roasting forks (or sporks) – we’re digging into UF genre pet peeves – the meaty ones today! 3pm PST/6pm EST
9:00 pm HC_Palmquist: RT @UF_Chat: 1 hour till #UFchat! Bring your roasting forks (or sporks) – we’re digging into UF genre pet peeves – the meaty ones today! 3pm PST/6pm EST
9:09 pm QQwill: RT @UF_Chat: 1 hour till #UFchat! Bring your roasting forks (or sporks) – we’re digging into UF genre pet peeves – the meaty ones today! 3pm PST/6pm EST
9:30 pm UF_Chat: 30 min countdown to #UFchat! Get ready to storm the customer complaint window for the UF genre (battering rams & axes welcome) 3pmPST/6pmEST
9:30 pm inkgypsy: 30 min countdown to #UFchat! Get ready to storm the customer complaint window for the UF genre (battering rams & axes welcome) 3pmPST/6pmEST
9:32 pm editorialdept: RT @inkgypsy: 30 min to #UFchat! Get ready to storm the customer complaint window for the UF genre (battering rams & axes welcome) 6pmEST
9:43 pm inkgypsy: @ShadowPhoenix32 Come to #UFchat today – starts in 15-ish mins at 3pm PST – lots of advice for UF writers! (or @ me afterward & I’ll help)
9:45 pm UF_Chat: 15 minutes till #UFchat! Time to get my boots on. Need gloves & goggles today too – it might get messy tearing apart the UF genre. 3pmPST
9:45 pm inkgypsy: 15 minutes till #UFchat! Time to get my boots on. Need gloves & goggles today too – it might get messy tearing apart the UF genre. 3pmPST
9:46 pm leapetra: RT @UF_Chat: 15 minutes till #UFchat! Time to get my boots on. Need gloves & goggles today too 3pmPST
9:51 pm tasmin21: RT @UF_Chat: 15 minutes till #UFchat! Time to get my boots on. Need gloves & goggles today too – it might get messy tearing apart the UF genre. 3pmPST
9:55 pm inkgypsy: Switching identities to the #UFchat mod. Boots? Check. Gloves? Check. Goggles? Check. Think I might need a helmet too…
9:56 pm miranda00writes: RT @inkgypsy: 15 minutes till #UFchat! Time to get my boots on. Need gloves & goggles today too – it might get messy tearing apart the UF genre. 3pmPST
9:57 pm UF_Chat: Primer for #UFchat early birds: pls take a look at article When Things Go Wrong by Carrie Vaughan http://bit.ly/aKOvKb #ufchat
9:58 pm UF_Chat: It?s goggles & pointy-weapons again today in #UFchat! We?re scrutinizing clichΓ©s, poking standards & pushing boundaries. Come armed. 2 mins!
9:58 pm inkgypsy: It?s goggles & pointy-weapons again today in #UFchat! We?re scrutinizing clichΓ©s, poking standards & pushing boundaries. Come armed. 2 mins!
10:00 pm UF_Chat: 3, 2… we are now live in #UFchat! What do U love, what are U sick of, what do U want more of? Pet Peeves & Wish Lists Round 2! #ufchat
10:00 pm UF_Chat: 1st ? giant congrats to @Cameron_Haley for the release of her debut UF novel Mob Rules! Set in LA & totally juiced! Go buy! #ufchat
10:00 pm UF_Chat: 2nd ? did anybody blog on this topic this last week? If so please tweet link now ? or feel free to add it at the end for resources. #ufchat
10:01 pm VampBookClub: RT @inkgypsy: It?s goggles & pointy-weapons again today in #UFchat! We?re scrutinizing clichΓ©s, poking standards & pushing boundaries. Come armed. 2 mins!
10:01 pm tasmin21: Hola, folk! #UFChat
10:01 pm UF_Chat: TODAY?S TOPIC: Round 2 of: UF – The Good, the Bad & the Untapped: Urban Fantasy Pet Peeves & Wish Lists #ufchat
10:01 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat new pet peeve, noticed this week. less scantly clad females. Just the right eye. only the right eye on the cover #ufchat
10:01 pm elizabethkarr: I’m here. Hi Everyone. Made discovery this week. #chicklit writer Kinsella wrote #UF.THE TWENTIES has paranormal char. #whodathunkit #UFchat
10:02 pm tasmin21: *eyes own cover* Well…that’s his right eye… Hmm… #UFChat
10:02 pm pauljessup: #ufchat pet peeve- one female character, the rest all male. Why not more than one or two strong women?
10:03 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat also had a great conversation in a yahoo group about UF #ufchat
10:03 pm leapetra: @tasmin21 it was spooky, checking in books at work, 7 titles all of them had right eyes staring at me. #ufchat
10:03 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Yep -UF (accord. to research) started in 20’s – I bet it goes back further though, really. Think Queen Boudicca (SP?) #ufchat
10:03 pm elizabethkarr: #chicklit is guilty pleasure 4 books on CD in LA traffic. @pauljessup Kinsella has 2 strong female chars in THE TWENTIES #UFchat
10:03 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat It is done and turned in. Waiting on edit letter. Working on outline for Book 3. πŸ˜‰ #UFChat
10:04 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra Ooh – details please! (summarized of course) #ufchat
10:04 pm dystophil: Hi everyone! Dropping in for the first time this week. #ufchat
10:04 pm leapetra: @pauljessup conventional thinking two strong women, end up in cat fights. #ufchat
10:04 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Hang on – did you mean age or 1920’s? LOL #ufchat
10:04 pm tasmin21: @dystophil Heya, Dys! #UFChat
10:04 pm _morganives: @UF_Chat Newbie lurker on #ufchat *waves*
10:05 pm UF_Chat: @dystophil Welcome! Looking at pet peeves & what we want more of in UF this week (part II) #ufchat
10:05 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat post coming. neither–the title is THE TWENTIES #UFchat
10:05 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat its a Fred Saberhagan group. Lucky enough to have his widow as a member, she was curious. I mentioned this chat. #ufchat
10:05 pm elizabethkarr: thought it was sign of the times that traditional #chicklit genre pushing envelope into paranormal and #UF #UFchat
10:06 pm UF_Chat: Pet peeve – covers that show women when a man is the MC – misrepresentation. #ufchat
10:06 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Excellent! Please link me or tweet & use the hashtag when done? #ufchat
10:06 pm UF_Chat: As per last week we know urban fantasy has evolved. Let?s consider the UF genre as it is ?now? mid-2010. #ufchat
10:07 pm UF_Chat: To warm us up ? esp. for people who weren?t here last week ? the UF genre customer complaints window is open! Bring it on. ? #ufchat
10:07 pm UF_Chat: S: Urban fantasy has a lot of variety & draws a lot of diff. reader (& writer!) types. Covered covers, images, blurbs etc last week. #ufchat
10:07 pm UF_Chat: S: This week we get to the nice meaty part of the genre ? the characters, themes, places & stories. #ufchat
10:07 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat I write a nasty book. And they want a girly cover on it | Lionel Shriver http://gu.com/p/2jdfk/tw <example #ufchat
10:08 pm dystophil: pet peeve – way too many UF books with female MCs sliding into paranormal romance. Female MC doesn’t mean it’s all about romance #ufchat
10:08 pm UF_Chat: S: We left off starting to talk about the kick-ass girls and boys. Let?s revisit as the next questions are based on those. #ufchat
10:09 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra I’m hearing that a lot from authors – guess is trying to snag the Ro readers whop are xlnt buyers but yikes. #ufchat
10:09 pm UF_Chat: S: BTW I?ll keep the Question numbers continuing from last week in case anyone wants to compile them. #ufchat
10:09 pm elizabethkarr: @dystophil agree-many & varied are adventures that UF heroines can have other than romance. #UFchat
10:09 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat I agree that too many “kick-ass” girls are really just bullies and overly aggressive. A strong woman isn’t either of those. #UFChat
10:09 pm UF_Chat: Q4: The kick-ass girls/women: what?s to love? What?s the ugly? What needs a revisit? What would you like to see? #ufchat
10:10 pm tasmin21: I want to see a woman who is secure in herself, and doesn’t need a love interest to define her or make her “complete”. #UFChat
10:10 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat I like kick ass women, but how many are Buffy clones? can we get some different archetypes. #ufchat
10:10 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat I’m hearing that a lot from authors – guess is trying to snag the Ro readers whop are xlnt buyers but yikes <Good guess. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:10 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 Yes – want to have chat re what tough and alpha really mean. Seeing controlling guys instead of true ‘alphas’ Ditto girls #ufchat
10:10 pm dystophil: @elizabethkarr yes, just getting really tired of the super-hot, sexy UF heroine whose plot is basically pure romance #ufchat
10:10 pm VampBookClub: RT @tasmin21: I want to see a woman who is secure in herself, and doesnt need a love interest to define her or make her “complete”. #ufchat
10:11 pm thedaisyharris: Hi guys! #UFchat
10:11 pm Patti_OShea: The thing that gets wearing for me is when the heroine is angry from beginning to end of the book. You don’t have 2B angry 2B tough #ufchat
10:11 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 Or someone at least settled in that department – what about a mature relationship? (thanks for writing one BTW!) #ufchat
10:11 pm elizabethkarr: @tasmin21 different genre, but Sue Grafton w/ Kinsey Millhone heroine is definitive writer on interesting heroine NOT defined by rom #UFchat
10:12 pm thedaisyharris: I sometimes dislike when tough heroines are mean to heroes for no good reason. #UFchat
10:12 pm tasmin21: @Patti_OShea Totally agree there. #UFChat
10:12 pm HC_Palmquist: @UF_Chat Too many times the kick-ass girls are written without true flaws. Makes it difficult to feel for them. #UFChat
10:12 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Yes! Exactly! Anger, aggression does not equal tough. Sometimes insecure, sometimes just anti-social/bad manners #ufchat
10:12 pm leapetra: @Patti_OShea that is so true, #ufchat
10:12 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat Exactly. Jesse’s got the whole domestic thing going. Don’t have to be a bad boy to be tough. #UFChat
10:12 pm editorialdept: I’m sick of the tough heroines who have inherent gifts. Few work their way up or build skills – they’re just naturally gifted/chosen #ufchat
10:13 pm UF_Chat: Now the boys – Q4a: The kick-ass bad-boys & the alpha males: Love? Hate? What would make them fresh? #ufchat
10:13 pm elizabethkarr: @HC_Palmquist Right on! Flaws can make char ‘loveable’ and relateable. #UFchat
10:13 pm leapetra: There are some great female characters out there that are not angry. (thinking Pratchett again, but all his females are amazing) #ufchat
10:13 pm miranda00writes: I don’t mind a character with insecurities, so long as a man isn’t “the” cure. #UFchat
10:13 pm pauljessup: @VampBookClub #ufchat -> http://goo.gl/WfX6
10:13 pm thedaisyharris: @UF_Chat I’m all about beta heroes, heroes who are virgins, or geeky, or socially inept. #UFchat
10:14 pm pauljessup: RT @Patti_OShea: The thing that gets wearing for me is when the heroine is angry from beginning to end of the book. You don’t have 2B angry 2B tough #ufchat
10:14 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat there are different types of “alpha males” it seems it’s brains or brawn never a nice mix. #ufchat
10:14 pm elizabethkarr: RT @miranda00writes: I dont mind a character with insecurities, so long as a man isnt “the” cure. #UFchat
10:14 pm thedaisyharris: @elizabethkarr Chars definitely need flaws! #UFchat
10:14 pm tasmin21: @miranda00writes I’ll second that in reverse. Too many “rebels” just need a good woman to tame them? Please. #UFChat
10:14 pm UF_Chat: @editorialdept I have issues with predestined MCs – no matter what they do they’ll ‘win’/conquer (essentially become princess) #ufchat
10:14 pm Patti_OShea: I like characters who grow throughout a story. If they’re the same at the end, then what was the point of the journey? #ufchat
10:14 pm artbymimulux: RT @leapetra: There are some great female characters out there that are not angry. (thinking Pratchett again, but all his females are amazing) #ufchat
10:15 pm leapetra: My idea of a bad ass is some one that could kick your butt, but chooses not too. #ufchat
10:15 pm thedaisyharris: RT @tasmin21: @miranda00writes Ill second that in reverse. Too many “rebels” just need a good woman to tame them? Please.~For sure! #UFchat
10:15 pm editorialdept: Again with the inherent gifts/charm – I like an alpha male who’s earned his spot rather than fallen into it by rote. #ufchat
10:15 pm Patti_OShea: Since I like characters who are equals, I like to see a tough heroine matched with a tough hero. #ufchat
10:15 pm pauljessup: Another peeve of mine- books were strong female character is basically just code word for Bitchy Character #ufchat
10:15 pm writermomof5: @UF_Chat I’d like to see a heroine that isn’t’ a combination of Bruce Lee and Wonder woman #ufchat
10:15 pm dystophil: @thedaisyharris ditto on that. def. getting tired of “perfect” characters #ufchat
10:15 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 Really good point (the good woman tamer). #ufchat
10:15 pm elizabethkarr: RT @thedaisyharris: @UF_Chat Im all about beta heroes, heroes who are virgins, or geeky, or socially inept. < Agree! ! #UFchat
10:15 pm leapetra: RT @editorialdept I have issues with predestined MCs – no matter what they do theyll win/conquer (essentially become princess) #ufchat
10:15 pm UF_Chat: Q5: Weapons, MC strength & violence: 1st the weapons ? what?s overused, what?s hot, what do you love, what do you not? (he) #ufchat
10:17 pm editorialdept: Q5 – never, ever getting sick of swords, but I’d love to see someone use their smarts as a weapon. Like I said last week – MacGyver #ufchat
10:17 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat I said this last week. I love swords, guns over used. <additional> creative weapons will pique my interest. #ufchat
10:17 pm tasmin21: Don’t mind overused weapons so long as there’s a reason for them knowing them. How many people REALLY know swordplay these days? #UFChat
10:17 pm miranda00writes: Personally, I love gratuitous violence. Weapons are always fun.;) #UFchat
10:17 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr @thedaisyharris Me too. Does this mean they can’t be alpha? Think not. Think term ‘alpha’ is misunderstood. #ufchat
10:17 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat Violence. I don’t mind violence, unless it become torture porn. #ufchat
10:18 pm tasmin21: Also, on weapons, KNOW your weapons. Don’t tell me a glock has a safety switch. #UFChat
10:18 pm Patti_OShea: The problem is there’s a limited number of weapons, right? How long can anyone come up with something unique? #ufchat
10:18 pm inkgrrl: Agreed, and never perm damaged. RT@leapetra/@editorialdept I have issues w/predestined MCs-no matter what they do theyll win/conquer #ufchat
10:18 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 Yes – use weapons – please – they’re awesome – but know what you’re doing. Go do live research please. #ufchat
10:18 pm miranda00writes: RT @tasmin21: Also, on weapons, KNOW your weapons. Don’t tell me a glock has a safety switch. #UFChat
10:19 pm editorialdept: RT @tasmin21: Also, on weapons, KNOW your weapons. Dont tell me a glock has a safety switch. <<Excellent point! Do your homework #ufchat
10:19 pm leapetra: @tasmin21 true you better explain how they learned their craft, and not at a dojo, that is getting overused too. #ufchat
10:19 pm writingdemons: @tasmin21 Agreed. Most weapons are still in use, but they need to come with a reason for using them. Other than “it’s cool.” #UFChat
10:19 pm tasmin21: I’m a little rabid about weapon/combat accuracy. #UFChat
10:19 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat now u mention-wld love yr opinion of diff betw alpha and beta hero/ines. #UFchat
10:19 pm leapetra: @Patti_OShea how about those gears in the first Hellboy movie, no one saw those being used as a weapon #ufchat
10:19 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Yes unless people look at their environments more – want more of that – creative/smart fighting, using what at hand. #ufchat
10:19 pm pauljessup: @Patti_OShea #ufchat What about someone who used stuff around them as weapons? Like old Kung Fu films. Anything can be a weapon
10:20 pm leapetra: biggest complaint about weapons, not just in UF DO NOT HOLD YOUR GUN SIDEWAYS its stupid (sorry for yelling) #ufchat
10:20 pm artbymimulux: RT @leapetra: My idea of a bad ass is some one that could kick your butt, but chooses not too. #ufchat
10:20 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Heh – think that’s a good chat topic as it’s pretty complex. I do want to explore that – both for guys & girls. #ufchat
10:20 pm editorialdept: Correllary to @tasmin21‘s point – just because you saw something on TV, don’t assume it’s proper use. When writing weapons, research #ufchat
10:20 pm Patti_OShea: @leapetra I have to confess, I haven’t seen Hellboy. I’m way, way, way behind on movies. #ufchat
10:20 pm tasmin21: @pauljessup That would rock! Would love to see a Jackie-Chan-type fighter. #UFChat
10:20 pm UF_Chat: @pauljessup You tweeted my thought too. LOL #ufchat
10:21 pm leapetra: @tasmin21 My youngest is a great source for me if I have to check the information on a gun #ufchat
10:21 pm tasmin21: And please, if using a gun, keep track of how many rounds you’ve used. Know what your clips hold. Reload. #UFChat
10:21 pm UF_Chat: Wow big topic on just the types of heroes/heroines and how violence is used! But I’m moving on… #ufchat
10:22 pm UF_Chat: Q5a: Emo-monsters & real monsters: where?s the real danger? What?s overused? What?s underused? What works & what doesn?t? #ufchat
10:22 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat Got it. Good topic 4 down the road. alpha and beta characters. Make a note! πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:22 pm pauljessup: @tasmin21 #ufchat LOL! Esp combined with someone’s MacGuyver suggestion earlier. That would be great book.
10:22 pm editorialdept: Also, martial arts styles, while similar, aren’t always interchangeable. Don’t write karate but mean kendo, etc… #ufchat
10:22 pm pauljessup: @UF_Chat LOL. Great minds, etc #ufchat
10:23 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 Am reading Monster Hunters International – one of strong points is guy REALLY knows his guns. Seriously. Maybe too much. #ufchat
10:23 pm inkgrrl: Q5: I want 2 see creativity used – anything can b a weapon: don’t limit 2 conventional/known weapons. #ufchat
10:23 pm tasmin21: I prefer my monsters to be monsters. They can PLAY at being all approachable, but only as a means to prey. #UFChat
10:23 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat emo monsters never appealed to me. and don’t give me I have to hide because I am different, you are a monster! #ufchat
10:23 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat Always makes you wonder what these authors have under their beds. πŸ˜‰ #UFChat
10:23 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 But I have more tolerance for weapon play description than most girls. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:23 pm leapetra: @tasmin21 <claps> #ufchat
10:24 pm editorialdept: emo monsters tend to lack “monster” – they’re too busy being emo. Write monsters for significance, not as emo kids w/ fur/fangs #ufchat
10:24 pm pauljessup: I’d like to see more creative monsters from obscure mythology πŸ™‚ #ufchat Like Aztec demons or African Vampires
10:24 pm thedaisyharris: @UF_Chat Werewolves leave me cold. No idea why. Maybe because wolves aren’t particularly dangerous really. #UFchat
10:24 pm leapetra: @inkgrrl favorite unconventional weapon. A book. #ufchat
10:24 pm UF_Chat: RT @pauljessup: @tasmin21 #ufchat LOL! Esp combined with someone’s MacGuyver suggestion earlier. That would be great book.
10:24 pm Nickinson: @inkgrrl I agree with that, with imagination you can turn anything to a weapon, it doesn’t even have to be physical. #ufchat
10:25 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra ooh – good question! #ufchat
10:25 pm tasmin21: @thedaisyharris See, I like the pack-mentality idea of a werewolf. Strict hierarchy, brutal punishment. Not walking throw rugs. #UFChat
10:25 pm leapetra: you can have deep monsters. that shouldn’t make them emo, but now it seems it does. #ufchat
10:25 pm elizabethkarr: @Nickinson Weapon can even be words. Revealing a secret or code. That can wield power, too. #UFchat
10:26 pm UF_Chat: Q5b: OK – quick back-up – what’s your favorite unconventional weapon (@leapetra says a book) #ufchat
10:26 pm leapetra: @inkgrrl The story I am thinking about it was a law book. heavy enough to knock someone out a window. #ufchat
10:26 pm tasmin21: I like monsters whose motivations are unfathomable to humans. Makes them unpredictable and scarier. #UFChat
10:26 pm jflamingo2: @UF_Chat Perhpas, it’s not as common but I also hate the vice-versa of this too. A women is MC but a man is on the cover. #ufchat
10:26 pm dystophil: can I just say, I want an UF with lightsabers? (yeah, I know, I know…) #ufchat
10:26 pm editorialdept: @elizabethkarr yes, never underestimate the power of information to damage a character. Sometimes subterfuge is better than a fight #ufchat
10:27 pm HC_Palmquist: @UF_Chat A cane. Then again, a broom would work too. #UFChat
10:27 pm UF_Chat: I loved the use of a car antennae in 1st season of Alias. Was MCs trademark – use what around you. Then became gadget show. Sigh. #ufchat
10:27 pm Nickinson: @elizabethkarr agreed, if you can make character use mental or inner conflict as a weapon, then u have a real powerful character. #ufchat
10:28 pm UF_Chat: Q5c: There?s been a trend of MCs with violent pasts (eg abuse). Is this overused? Is there still room for these MCs? Thoughts? #ufchat
10:28 pm latta: RT @elizabethkarr: @Nickinson Weapon can even be words. Revealing a secret or code. That can wield power, too. #UFchat
10:28 pm dystophil: @tasmin21 yes, but the problem with that is that unfathomable motivations often risk coming over as being evil for the sake of evil #ufchat
10:28 pm tasmin21: @dystophil Agreed. Tricky to pull off well. #UFChat
10:28 pm latta: @elizabethkarr is that as in, teh pen being mightier than the sword? πŸ™‚ but agree. #ufchat
10:28 pm UF_Chat: S: @lilithsaintcrow penned this article on the image of UF in 2008: Angry Chicks in Leather http://bit.ly/a58dKx #ufchat
10:28 pm elizabethkarr: @editorialdept agreed and it opens up all sorts of complexities in developing the relationships 3 which is key to holding reader int #UFchat
10:29 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat Past abuse can make for an MC with powerful motivations. But doesn’t mean normal upbringing = weenie. #UFChat
10:29 pm elizabethkarr: Yes, cliche’ but true IMHO RT @latta: @elizabethkarr is that as in, teh pen being mightier than the sword? πŸ™‚ but agree. #UFchat
10:29 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat I think if you use the abuse as a reason why they have to change, not as an excuse for their behavior. #ufchat
10:29 pm latta: @editorialdept this is in fact what my other WIP deals with– information, and who owns “your” info–and what can happen w/it #ufchat
10:30 pm inkgrrl: @editorialdept To misquote, war is extension of diplomacy by other means. Great way to extend/deepen characters. #ufchat
10:30 pm dystophil: @tasmin21 exactly. I’m really fond of the “normal” character with a twist #ufchat
10:30 pm elizabethkarr: @leapetra It’s always the little idiosyncracies that endear us to the chars. #UFchat
10:30 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Difficulty is in using words effectively when situation already physically violent. Can be done but tricky. #ufchat
10:31 pm UF_Chat: Q5d: Angry chicks in leather: Acceptable or not? Is it still true? What?s changed? How do you want your action portrayed? #ufchat
10:31 pm writingdemons: @dystophil @tasmin21 Being raised “normal” doesn’t always turn out normal mentality or motivations. Same with violent pasts. #UFChat
10:31 pm elizabethkarr: RT @latta this is in fact what my other WIP deals with-information& who owns “your” info-and what can happen w/it<Grt premise 4 2day #UFchat
10:32 pm jimnduncan: Interesting chat today. Wish I could participate more, but in middle of making burritos. #ufchat
10:32 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat 1st. my MC would look horrible in leather. 2nd. She is overweight. How many of those have you seen on covers? #ufchat
10:32 pm latta: @editorialdept @elizabethcarr some of the chars w/longest staying power for me have been more didactic than demonic. #ufchat
10:32 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat But isn’t succeeding at ‘the tricky’ what all writers aspire 2? πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:32 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat Do you know how hot and sweaty leather pants are? Dear gods, the chafing!! #UFChat
10:33 pm MeWriteWords: RT @leapetra I love the fact my vampires scoff at guns, but will freak out if you chase them with a stick from an ash tree. #ufchat
10:33 pm dystophil: @writingdemons Hi WD! And yes, also there is the question of what we define as “normal” #ufchat
10:33 pm elizabethkarr: @leapetra Overweight heroine on cover? I’d buy that book for the sheer novelty value. Like we live in world where noone obese?-NOT. #UFchat
10:34 pm jflamingo2: @UF_Chat When an animal changes into another form that becomes a weapon like a snake becoming a stick. #ufchat
10:34 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Of course! That’s why we’re here – to up the ante (and help and inspire). #ufchat
10:34 pm editorialdept: Was just thinking – how many books w/ leather on the cover actually involve a character wearing leather? I can’t think of many. #ufchat
10:34 pm dystophil: @tasmin21 yes. Also, creaking leather = not good when you’re trying to be sneaky. #ufchat
10:35 pm leapetra: @elizabethkarr (making mental note to change cover on next editon) πŸ˜€ #ufchat
10:35 pm UF_Chat: @jflamingo2 Haven’t seen much of that! Common in myths & legends – you think there’d be more. #ufchat
10:35 pm elizabethkarr: RT @leapetra: @elizabethkarr (making mental note to change cover on next editon) πŸ˜€ < Love it! #UFchat
10:35 pm writingdemons: Only time I see people wear leather is for protection when riding motorcycles. #UFChat
10:35 pm tasmin21: I wanna see a heroine wearing Spanx! That’s right, I said it. #UFChat
10:35 pm latta: @editorialdept modern books w/leather bindings, or did a have a thread drop? #ufchat
10:35 pm jessenovels: You character could be wearing anything he wants’ but if he’s dull and unrealistic you’re fucked #UFchat
10:36 pm writingdemons: Well, maybe not the only time, but certainly the only time in summer. #UFChat
10:36 pm leapetra: I do have characters that wear leather. Biker leather, with their colors. #ufchat
10:36 pm UF_Chat: @editorialdept Used to be a lot – that’s changing this last year in particular but used to be standard. #ufchat
10:36 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 OMG. And that’s all I’m going to say. LOL #ufchat
10:36 pm leapetra: If they are going out to hunt vampires. Why not a chain mail piece around the neck? not a leather halter #ufchat
10:36 pm editorialdept: @latta I meant cover art w/ leather-wearing characters vs. characters actually wearing the stuff in the story πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:36 pm elizabethkarr: @tasmin21 How do u know they’re not already under thier leather? πŸ™‚ Actually interesting quirk-MC concerned with weight. #UFchat
10:37 pm UF_Chat: Q6: The outfits: what?s hot, what?s not? What makes you roll your eyes & what?s missing from our girls (& guys wardrobes)? #ufchat
10:37 pm UF_Chat: @editorialdept Oh agree – it’s the image more than the actuality of the stories – always has been sadly. #ufchat
10:37 pm annikkawoods: *crawls in late* Sorry. @editorialadept You’d like one of my stories, then. One of my characters always wears black leather. #ufchat
10:38 pm latta: @tasmin21 well, wendy has brought the wig out of the closet–so why not those too? #ufchat
10:38 pm elizabethkarr: Zombies, werewolves going 2 Weight Watchers…I’m cracking myself up here. #UFchat
10:38 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat Kilts are always sexy, not practical in modern stories, but I would forgive a kilt #ufchat
10:38 pm tasmin21: @elizabethkarr Then show me! I think that’d be awesome. #UFChat
10:38 pm dystophil: Glasses. More UF MCs should wear them. And I’m not talking about sunglasses. #ufchat
10:38 pm tasmin21: Why do no male characters wear a cup when going into battle?? #UFChat
10:39 pm ElysabethW: I 2nd this! RT @tasmin21: I wanna see a heroine wearing Spanx! That’s right, I said it. #UFChat
10:39 pm tasmin21: (totally just turned this into a UF underwear discussion) #UFChat
10:39 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra Highlander. It’s caused many to love UF in the first place! So yes – more kilts. LOL #ufchat
10:39 pm editorialdept: @leapetra I could see a role for a Utilikilt in a present-day story πŸ™‚ #ufchat
10:39 pm latta: @UF_Chat whatever the apparel, i need to be able to believe it for both the character and the conditions. #ufchat
10:39 pm leapetra: @tasmin21 another good question #ufchat
10:39 pm annikkawoods: Can we just have a heroine (or hero) who runs around in ratty sweats or PJs when they’re surprised? Too many are perfectly dressed. #ufchat
10:39 pm VampBookClub: I’m all about heroines wearing sensible shoes. They can be cute, but you’re not going to be battling in stilettos. #ufchat
10:39 pm snarkychicklet: @tasmin21 Agreed. There’s something terrifying about not knowing the “why” behind the evil (as creepy as banal evil). #UFchat
10:40 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 It’s a very valid point – when fighting for living the under is VERY important. And it affects the outer wear too. #ufchat
10:40 pm elizabethkarr: @editorialdept Having just been to event with lots of kilts my imagination is running wild w/utilikilt. LOL #UFchat
10:40 pm leapetra: @editorialdept I love the utilikilt #ufchat
10:40 pm annikkawoods: @VampBookClub That’s too true. I’ve worn stiletto heels. They’d kill themselves and leave the bad guys laughing. #ufchat
10:40 pm UF_Chat: Q6a: Since it came up – underwear and protective measures for regularly fighting MCs – thoughts? #ufchat
10:40 pm latta: @tasmin21 @elizabethkarr i can see it now. a codpiece, spanx, and the crown jewels. #ufchat
10:41 pm jessenovels: I enjoy my masturbating killer, he makes me happy each time he kills #ufchat
10:41 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat I’ve got a supporting character who wears a utilikilt on a regular basis. #UFChat
10:41 pm FapCop: RT @jessenovels: I enjoy my masturbating killer, he makes me happy each time he kills #ufchat
10:41 pm VampBookClub: @annikkawoods LOL. Yes. If you’re caught in the middle of the night, shouldn’t they be in sleepwear? #ufchat
10:41 pm leapetra: I had to have my MC have bad hair days all the time, and melting make up. Just to make it real #ufchat
10:41 pm QQwill: QQwill @UF_Chat I am incredibly tired of bare midriffed UF heroines! Too many covers like that. #UFChat
10:41 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat I guess there needs to be a fine line between reality, and over-sharing. #UFChat
10:41 pm thedaisyharris: @UF_Chat Funny question! I have never thought about it. #UFchat
10:42 pm editorialdept: well, if you’re a buffy type, you could at least make sure your stiletto heels were made of wood. then they’d serve a dual purpose #ufchat
10:42 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 Book 2? #ufchat
10:42 pm writingdemons: @UF_Chat Breast bindings. I mean, hullo. Most heroines are pretty well endowed. Them knocking around when running hurts. #UFChat
10:42 pm elizabethkarr: Focusing on gutter and not stars, are we? RT @latta: @tasmin21 @elizabethkarr i can see it now.a codpiece,spanx, & the crown jewels #UFchat
10:42 pm UF_Chat: @QQwill Agree – and bare torso guys – it’s effectively a target – please stab/hack/bite here. #ufchat
10:42 pm annikkawoods: @tasmin21 That’s a good point. I don’t know that I’d want to see it mentioned in a book, except in passing as a joke by the girl. #ufchat
10:43 pm indiepride: What is #ufchat?
10:43 pm UF_Chat: @editorialdept I remember reading an interview with Sarah Michelle on how tough to do action scenes in her shoes.. #ufchat
10:43 pm annikkawoods: @UF_Chat @QQwill Yeah. Or short shorts/short skirts. Talk about easy targets. #ufchat
10:43 pm leapetra: So basically the leather exposed mid drift is as practical as the chain mail bikini? #ufchat
10:44 pm UF_Chat: @indiepride Urban fantasy chat – happening now – come join! use tweetchat and use the #UFchat hashtag to join in. #ufchat
10:44 pm leapetra: @indiepride We discuss Urban Fiction. this week pet peaves #ufchat
10:44 pm latta: 16thC RT @elizabethkarr Focusing on gutter&not stars, are we? RT @latta: @tasmin21 @i can see it now.a codpiece,spanx,&crown jewels #UFchat
10:44 pm UF_Chat: Q3: (Yes I skipped this last week due to time) Sex & romance in UF ? what?s hot, what?s not, what are you sick of, what do you want? #ufchat
10:44 pm thedaisyharris: I have a zombie-robot subplot heroine who cant stop wearing clear plastic platforms. #UFchat
10:45 pm UF_Chat: @editorialdept I did like that scene where she was skating for pleasure & ended up using skate as weapon. SarahMichelle’s influence #ufchat
10:45 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat Sick of the world ending in half an hour, but we have time to stop and boink first. #UFChat
10:45 pm thedaisyharris: @leapetra Dude! Chainmael!!! Guys are always naked under it! It sounds like a full body epilady! #UFchat
10:45 pm indiepride: @leapetra ahh interesting. listening in now #ufchat
10:45 pm Patti_OShea: RT @tasmin21: @UF_Chat Sick of the world ending in half an hour, but we have time to stop and boink first. <– YES! Me, too! #ufchat
10:46 pm leapetra: another Pratchett exmple. A woman did use her stilettos as a weapon. She did Dirty Harry and dared to see how far the spike would go #ufchat
10:46 pm writingdemons: @UF_Chat So sick of the abusive relationships that are portrayed as right and good. Makes me want to smack people. #UFChat
10:46 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 Good glory yes! Baby booms begin the night AFTER the boom happens, not before – or during. #ufchat
10:46 pm latta: @elizabethkarr am IMing w/partner who is stuck on tarmac for another hour and was told due to a “loose nut” #ufchat
10:46 pm annikkawoods: @UF_Chat Can we please get past all of the love triangles? And maybe go for a semi-sensible romantic bit? Like a normal relatonship? #ufchat
10:46 pm LaylaMessner: Okay. I missed #UFChat (hi everyone, hope it’s great) but I got two more hrs of #amediting in :). Party time πŸ™‚
10:47 pm dystophil: def. sick of sex just for sex’ sake. Relationships require build-up and more than “OMG U R so hawt. I want u!” seriously…. #ufchat
10:47 pm UF_Chat: @writingdemons Yes – too much of that that isn’t seen for what it is – not good. #ufchat
10:47 pm editorialdept: Sick of sex scenes for sex scene’s sake. ie: “I’ve got some pages to fill…add sex scene for padding rather than plot” #ufchat
10:47 pm Patti_OShea: @leapetra I went to a self-defense class where we were told to drive stiletto heel into attacker’s foot. Can pierce shoe and flesh. #ufchat
10:47 pm UF_Chat: @LaylaMessner Still happening – come chat! #ufchat
10:47 pm leapetra: practical vampire hunter wear. silver chain mail around exposed skin. Blessed leather Armor and wooden weapons. #ufchat
10:47 pm dystophil: also, let’s just call it quits with obsessive relationships already. #ufchat
10:47 pm indiepride: @writingdemons I agree. bad relationships portrayed as good are off-putting #UFChat
10:48 pm elizabethkarr: @latta Tell him to get off the plane. Is ‘loose nut’ in cockpit or in engine? #UFchat
10:48 pm pauljessup: RT @indiepride: @writingdemons I agree. bad relationships portrayed as good are off-putting #UFChat
10:48 pm UF_Chat: Q7: Changing tacks – Cities in UF: what are some overused locations? What cities would be interesting to explore UF-wise? #ufchat
10:48 pm leapetra: @Patti_OShea That’s exactly what she was doing. You were cringing for the poor man. #ufchat
10:48 pm annikkawoods: I’m with @dystophil @editorialadept I’m tired of gratuitous sex. #ufchat
10:49 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat I made up my own city That was fun, and I didn’t want one place associated with my stuff. #ufchat
10:49 pm thedaisyharris: I hate when f is thrown over guy’s shoulder and “can’t” get free. All you have to do is arch back, and guy break hold. Duh! #UFchat
10:49 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea I once nearly did that on dance floor with stilletto. After that always had clear berth 4 dance room. #UFchat
10:49 pm UF_Chat: Q7a: Alleys, graveyards, police stations & more: What typical city niches have you seen enough of? What?s missing? #ufchat
10:49 pm Queryaddict: I’ve heard that NY and LA are the two most overused cities for any type of book. Editors are tired of them #UFCHAT
10:50 pm annikkawoods: @UF_Chat Overused? Seattle, New York City, LA, and Chicago. And small towns. Why not Boise, or Coeur d’Alene? Why not Alexandria? #ufchat
10:50 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra Was your faux city set in our world near somewhere we could identify? #ufchat
10:50 pm Patti_OShea: @elizabethkarr That’s funny, but not funny at the same time. Yikes! #ufchat
10:50 pm thedaisyharris: @UF_Chat Overused: New Orleans. Underused:Detroit #UFchat
10:50 pm dystophil: @UF_Chat I’m going to jump out of the North America mold and set my YA UF in Frankfurt, Germany. Still a metropolis though. #ufchat
10:50 pm indiepride: @thedaisyharris lol. yes the “helpless” female is old too #UFchat
10:50 pm writingdemons: I think most of the Big Cities are overused. I’d like to see things done with smaller cities. Salt Lake City Ut stars in my UF book. #UFChat
10:50 pm elizabethkarr: RT @Queryaddict: Ive heard that NY and LA are the two most overused cities for any type of book. Editors are tired of them #UFchat
10:50 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat Its a mix of the Twin Cities, Syracuse, LaCrosse WI, New York, and a few other places #ufchat
10:51 pm editorialdept: & nothing worse than a sex scene when the author can’t write one well. Read this re: how to write one – http://bit.ly/9JxWJ1 #ufchat
10:51 pm elizabethkarr: RT @Patti_OShea: @elizabethkarr Thats funny, but not funny at the same time. Yikes! <About what he said, w/ emphasis on latter. #UFchat
10:51 pm thedaisyharris: @indiepride Worse, the “badass” female that can’t break the most obvious of holds. #UFchat
10:51 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Funnily enough – barely seen LA in UF though. NY a lot but not LA – kinda odd but living here I understand why. #ufchat
10:51 pm pauljessup: #ufchat I’d like to see more rust belt towns on the decline. Make Urban more dangerous. Detroit, Erie, Cleveland, Pittsburg
10:51 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat Although a few people swear I based all of it on Brooklyn. I have never been to Brooklyn. #ufchat
10:52 pm pauljessup: (Although I must note- my own UF takes place in Cleveland) #ufchat
10:52 pm UF_Chat: @editorialdept Is that link @StaciaKane‘s awesome series? #ufchat
10:52 pm leapetra: @pauljessup That is also my city. Very rust belt midwestern. #ufchat
10:52 pm elizabethkarr: Heartland-midwest-sadly underused in UF. There’s a whole country out there w/ stories waiting 2 b told about them. (and readers 2) #UFchat
10:52 pm latta: @elizabethkarr having hard time getting teh details since not supposed to be using phone. #ufchat
10:53 pm UF_Chat: Q7a: Alleys, graveyards, police stations & more: What typical city niches have you seen enough of? What?s missing? #ufchat
10:53 pm editorialdept: @UF_Chat no, just a short article one of our editors wrote. a good primer on the subject. Def. recommend @StaciaKane‘s series, tho! #ufchat
10:53 pm UF_Chat: Q7b: What typical city personnel are overused? What typical jobs are underused? What would you like to see? #ufchat
10:53 pm Patti_OShea: I set 2 stories in Minneapolis, and 1 in Woodford, WI. Although, in the Woodford book, they weren’t in the town. #ufchat
10:53 pm leapetra: can we stop with New Orleans too, unless you are going to update it with what Katrina did to the coast. #ufchat
10:53 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat There’s an awful lot of strip clubs in UF. #UFChat
10:53 pm indiepride: @thedaisyharris yes! she kcked butt the scene before but the smallest ant can trick her #UFchat
10:54 pm dystophil: question that popped up the other day: is it still considered UF if your city is fictional/in a slightly futuristic world? #ufchat
10:54 pm elizabethkarr: RT @leapetra: can we stop with New Orleans too, unless you are going to update it with what Katrina did to the coast. #UFchat
10:54 pm leapetra: @Patti_OShea I will have to check those out. #ufchat
10:54 pm dystophil: vampire strip clubs/night clubs must go. #ufchat
10:54 pm annikkawoods: I am so tired of seeing the corrupt police, the strip clubs, and the private investigators. #ufchat
10:54 pm elizabethkarr: @annikkawoods God knows it worked 4 TWILIGHT. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:55 pm writingdemons: @UF_Chat I wanna see more janitors. Nothing in the city would function if not for janitors keeps things clean. #UFChat
10:55 pm UF_Chat: There’s an interesting new article on Tor.com talking about real disasters rarely used in UF (at least not when happening). #ufchat
10:55 pm pauljessup: @leapetra I’d actually like to read something like that…maybe vamps/demons trying to take over while Katrina was happening #ufchat
10:55 pm latta: @elizabethkarr i think the Clutters via Capote took care of some of that flatland. How about crazed Packer fans? #ufchat
10:55 pm Patti_OShea: @leapetra thanks! #ufchat
10:55 pm leapetra: @dystophil I hope so. I am banking on that. #ufchat
10:55 pm annikkawoods: Though I will admit to having an independent forensic investigator, a federal agent (like XFiles), and a bunch of waiters/waitress. #ufchat
10:56 pm UF_Chat: @writingdemons Yes – and garbage men. #ufchat
10:56 pm elizabethkarr: @latta I offer up my family 4 crazed Packer fans research. #UFchat
10:56 pm annikkawoods: @elizabethkarr Hush, you…do NOT try to compare my masterpiece with those books. LOL (Not a Twilight fan. *grin*) #ufchat
10:56 pm UF_Chat: Q8: What?s great about UF series? What?s annoying? What potential do you think remains untapped? #ufchat
10:56 pm annikkawoods: @leapetra I’ve got something similar, and the owner’s a major info broker. She literally sells you info on everyone & everything. #ufchat
10:56 pm thedaisyharris: Y’know what you don’t see in written UF that is big in TV SF? Abvious race relation/class stratification metaphors. What gives? #UFchat
10:56 pm tasmin21: We need a supernatural meter maid. #UFChat
10:57 pm dystophil: @leapetra yeah, well, I got a little confused on the “is a futuristic city still UF-setting material” when query-writing #ufchat
10:57 pm leapetra: @Patti_OShea That’s only because you are raised a Packer fan, even if you don’t watch football. #ufchat
10:57 pm jflamingo2: @UF_Chat I wonder how south TX would be explored UF-wise? San Antonio, Corpus Christi, McAllen? Lots to make it interesting here. #ufchat
10:57 pm elizabethkarr: @annikkawoods I am not comparing. Only sending you wishes 4 that sort of publishing success. Then I will produce the movie. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
10:57 pm editorialdept: untapped potential: unique critters and locations. Plunging deeper into multicultural myths and lore. #ufchat
10:58 pm annikkawoods: @elizabethkarr Ohhh! Ok! Sounds lovely. *grin* #ufchat
10:58 pm UF_Chat: @tasmin21 I read a short story with one – was great! Can’t remember where though – was few years ago. #ufchat
10:58 pm thedaisyharris: @jflamingo2 Texas corners the market in romance setting. (Well, certain kinds of romance.) #UFchat
10:58 pm Patti_OShea: What I like about series is that there’s more opportunities for the character to change and grow and watch it happen. #ufchat
10:58 pm Patti_OShea: They can also change in more ways than 1 book allows. #ufchat
10:58 pm annikkawoods: @editorialdept That’s an interesting idea. And something I delved into before creating one of the creatures who populates my world. #ufchat
10:58 pm Patti_OShea: What I don’t like is when the series bogs down in their world’s politics to the point where I just want to say, come on, let’s go. #ufchat
10:58 pm leapetra: Midwesterners. Why can’t we have Hodags invading Milwaukee? just a suggestion. #ufchat
10:59 pm UF_Chat: @editorialdept Multicultural! Want more of that – very much. #ufchat
10:59 pm elizabethkarr: @thedaisyharris V interesting your note re lack of race/class differences/metaphors in UF. I’m not as familiar w/ the genre #UFchat
10:59 pm inkgrrl: It’s still urban, so why not? RT @dystophil: is it still considered UF if your city is fictional/in a slightly futuristic world? #ufchat
10:59 pm annikkawoods: @leapetra She uses the money to help fund her and her partner’s travels and hunting exploits. #ufchat
10:59 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Oh yes – enough politics thanks. #ufchat
11:00 pm LaylaMessner: @UF_Chat I know, but I’m getting ready to leave the house. I’m so grateful for the transcripts you post on the blog! #UFChat
11:00 pm thedaisyharris: @latta @UF_Chat I always like SciFi as instrument of social change (or at least social commentary). I’d like to see more in UF. #UFchat
11:00 pm MindyRuiz: RT @UF_Chat: @indiepride Urban fantasy chat – happening now – come join! use tweetchat and use the #UFchat hashtag to join in. #ufchat
11:00 pm Patti_OShea: @UF_Chat I’ve written multi-cultural. Sometimes the publisher will highlight it, sometimes they seem to want to downplay it. Sigh. #ufchat
11:00 pm annikkawoods: @Patti_OShea Oh yes, very tired of political agendas in the UF books. #ufchat
11:00 pm writingdemons: Thanks to #UFChat I now want to put jack-a-lopes in my books.
11:01 pm UF_Chat: Q9: UF voice: 1st vs 3rd & more: what POVs do you like & why? What don?t you like & WHY? (yes ? I?m making you think) #ufchat
11:01 pm editorialdept: don’t see much cultural diversity in UF unless you count the weres/vamps/etc. Not many non-white humans. #ufchat
11:01 pm leapetra: I never understood why we couldn’t have more American folklore creatures in UF, why not an widowmaker, or a jackalope? #ufchat
11:01 pm annikkawoods: @thedaisyharris That’s one thing I’ve noticed too. UF seems to get whitewashed a lot. #ufchat
11:01 pm tasmin21: One of my WIPs deals with a Westboro-style protest group, protesting supernaturals having equal rights. #UFChat
11:01 pm thedaisyharris: @UF_Chat Interesting. I may have only read recent. #UFchat
11:01 pm tasmin21: @leapetra Wrote one with a jackalope as a familiar! Love him so much. #UFChat
11:02 pm latta: rt @thedaisyharris @latta @UF_Chat I always like SciFi as instr of social change (or at least soc commentary). ike 2see more in UF. #UFchat
11:02 pm Patti_OShea: @UF_Chat I would love more 3rd person. I’m not a fan of 1st person to begin with and it seems like 95% of UF is 1st #ufchat
11:02 pm UF_Chat: Q9a: The UF attitude: is it just “FU” or is there more? #ufchat
11:02 pm elizabethkarr: I don’t like political AGENDA in UF but do appreciate pol BACKGROUND or CURRENT EVENT setting that rings true. #UFchat
11:02 pm annikkawoods: @leapetra I do use American folklore in the fact that gypsy hunter is also Native American…and boy does she have issues. #ufchat
11:02 pm leapetra: @editorialdept I am guilty of that. 1 black character, but I do have a Spanish family of werewolves. #ufchat
11:02 pm latta: @thedaisyharris i agree with you viz social change. change we’d *like* to believe in. bah-dum-pum. #ufchat
11:02 pm editorialdept: @Patti_OShea yes! very tired of 1st person. #ufchat
11:02 pm indiepride: @UF_Chat I love reading 1st if it’s well done. #ufchat
11:03 pm jimnduncan: I like when stories explore the fantasy aspects. Not so much interested about just having vamps/demons plopped down in our world. #ufchat
11:03 pm UF_Chat: FINAL Q: UF wish lists: how would you like to see UF evolve? What would you love to see explored in UF? #ufchat
11:03 pm annikkawoods: @Patti_OShea I’m tired of the stream of consciousness that happens when you get a badly written 1st person POV. #ufchat
11:04 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Agree – need that texture to ring true but please don’t focus on it – want the story. #ufchat
11:04 pm thedaisyharris: @elizabethkarr Interesting thoughts about line between social change vs agenda. I always think of Star Trek. Didn’t have agenda… #UFchat
11:04 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat personal taste. Lets do more world jumping. #ufchat
11:04 pm editorialdept: @jimnduncan related to that, I hate when authors try too hard to explain the fantasy. Sometimes it’s ok to just let magic be magic. #ufchat
11:04 pm annikkawoods: @jimnduncan I’ve got vamps and were-beasts (not just wolves), but I’m also big on other magical/paranormal things. #ufchat
11:04 pm Patti_OShea: @editorialdept I’ve done Vietnamese-American heroine, Japanese-Demon-American heroine. Hero who is Filipino-African/Caribbean-Amercn #ufchat
11:05 pm elizabethkarr: Writers-if u’ve got a 1000 word story link it. RT @JeremyCShipp If you do post a #SaturdayStory link today, I’ll RT your message. #UFchat
11:05 pm Patti_OShea: @editorialdept But my books are more paranormal romance than regular UF #ufchat
11:05 pm elizabethkarr: RT @UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Agree – need that texture to ring true but please dont focus on it – want the story. #UFchat
11:05 pm latta: @elizabethkarr agreed. don’t want to read a polemic on merits of democracy or fillintheblank. there are actual texts for that #ufchat
11:06 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra World jumping? Can you explain further? #ufchat
11:06 pm leapetra: I do Berserks, trolls, mad scientists, aliens, and a wild man. there are so many other creatures and things you can use. #ufchat
11:06 pm thedaisyharris: I haven’t read any recent UF where I thought to myself, “gee, I wouldn’t have thought about it that way.” #UFchat
11:06 pm elizabethkarr: @thedaisyharris Star Trek mingled social commentary w/ story v well. I think they did have agenda, but it was agenda I agreed w/! πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:07 pm annikkawoods: I’ve got a shadow race, my mages/shamans/druids, vamps, were-beasts, fae, and the odd unicorn that wanders into town instead of deer #ufchat
11:07 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat Like the show Sliders. I know it seems sci-fi, but it has been used in fantasy books too. But I don’t think UF #ufchat
11:07 pm tasmin21: I would like to see more characters taking time to recover from their injuries. #UFChat
11:07 pm thedaisyharris: @leapetra Ooh, me loves me some mad scientists! #UFchat
11:07 pm editorialdept: My last UF had a unicorn and a golem. And pirates. Another had dragons. Haven’t ever written vamps or weres. Go fig. #ufchat
11:08 pm elizabethkarr: Back to salt mines 4 me. Discovered this movie producer has to LABOR on Labor Day weekend. #whassupwidat? #UFchat
11:08 pm latta: @elizabethkarr @thedaisyharris not UF, but I think WestWing & 24 managed to give usbelief that women &men of colour could be POTUS #ufchat
11:08 pm RoseanneSchmidt: RT @Patti_OShea: @UF_Chat I would love more 3rd person. I’m not a fan of 1st person to begin with and it seems like 95% of UF is 1st #ufchat
11:08 pm tasmin21: Wanna see an ugly protagonist. #UFChat
11:09 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra That’s because deal w other realities. UF deals with our current or our reality changed, unless you have travel to Faerie. #ufchat
11:09 pm GeneDoucette: what’s the chat, gang? I imagine I’m at the end of it #ufchat
11:09 pm elizabethkarr: @latta Totally agree that shows prepared electorate for Hillary or Obama. And House episode I did 2 where 1st black man ran 4 prez #UFchat
11:10 pm annikkawoods: @tasmin21 I’d like to see a protagonist NOT go home with half the people he/she meets drooling on her. #ufchat
11:10 pm thedaisyharris: I should get back to writing. Thanks for the chat! #UFchat
11:10 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra Guess people could dig more into mythic parallel worlds – Faerie, Valhalla etc Hard to think of them right now. #ufchat
11:10 pm SpiderGriffin: RT @Queryaddict: I’ve heard that NY and LA are the two most overused cities for any type of book. Editors are tired of them #UFCHAT
11:10 pm UF_Chat: That?s a wrap for #UFchat today! If you?re writing UF you may want to bookmark the transcript. πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
11:10 pm elizabethkarr: Sometimes TV ahead of the social curve like West Wing , sometimes behind like most sit-coms til Modern Family #UFchat
11:11 pm UF_Chat: A few more resources on top of last weeks ones, on the topic of UF pet peeves & wish lists tweeted next: #ufchat
11:11 pm GeneDoucette: yep, right at the end. #ufchat
11:11 pm UF_Chat: What do you wish would be done MORE in urban fantasy? (Jim Butcher?s forum from 2008) http://bit.ly/8YHkqb #ufchat
11:11 pm GeneDoucette: I always manage to miss this, and it’s right in my subject, too. #ufchat
11:11 pm UF_Chat: The Problem With Urban Fantasy by Uncertain Principles (scathing but very good points) http://bit.ly/aapZE9 #ufchat
11:12 pm UF_Chat: Timeline of Trend by Carrie Vaughn (UF used to & does have more than chicks in leather dating vamps) http://bit.ly/9rNx10 #ufchat
11:12 pm annikkawoods: Wish I’d been able to be here for all of this. Great chat, though, and thanks for some good ideas for the UF when I get to it. #ufchat
11:12 pm latta: @elizabethkarr i think some shows de-strangify new ideas, make them more palatable or less foreign and easier to replicate in RL. #ufchat
11:12 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Ugly is female Rambos. Killers with no recourse, no penalties. Lots of sex with lots of people=independence. #ufchat
11:13 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette Transcript avail. each week & late comments welcome -are few who can’t make it and comment late – I add to transcript. #ufchat
11:13 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat We need more already attached women lead, maybe even mothers. #ufchat
11:13 pm UF_Chat: Urban Fantasy Cliches by WritingHood http://bit.ly/dDp9DL #ufchat
11:13 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat Great writers room 2day. Enjoyed exchange of ideas. #UFchat
11:13 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat what was this week? Things u’d like to see in UF? #ufchat
11:14 pm editorialdept: RT @leatherzebra: @UF_Chat We need more already attached women lead, maybe even mothers. #ufchat
11:14 pm tasmin21: Awesome chat today, folks! Thanks! #UFChat
11:14 pm leapetra: @GeneDoucette more pet peeves #ufchat
11:14 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette Pet peeves & what we’d like to see more of – pt II – started last week and got huge so cont this week. #ufchat
11:14 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Love kick ass but noble/gentle men. Freshen by adding less gorgeous-perfect men. #ufchat
11:14 pm thedaisyharris: One more thought- Social commentary, sans agenda, is what catapulted the Sookie Stackhouse books. (IMO) #UFchat
11:15 pm dystophil: @leatherzebra Kelly Gay’s THE BETTER PART OF DARKNESS MC is a single mother. Quite enjoyed that one. #ufchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: Announcement next ? if you want to promote your UF posts, book or anything else UF related now is the time! #ufchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: Got a topic you want to chat about? Let me know! I?ll add it to the list & maybe even bump up the chat-date for it. ? #ufchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: If you wish to highlight UF release by an author here on Twitter from the last week ? let me know & I?ll promote it. Just @inkgypsy. #ufchat
11:16 pm thedaisyharris: @editorialdept Funny, I dislike reading about heroine’s with kids. I’m all “why does *she* have all this free time?” #UFchat
11:16 pm tasmin21: Shameless self-promotion: A DEVIL IN THE DETAILS available now! #UFChat
11:16 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat gotcha. I would maybe stink at this subject, since, as I said, I hardly read UF. #ufchat
11:16 pm UF_Chat: I’m slowly making a list of UF authors on Twitter on blog site. Please suggest more to @inkgypsy (that?s me in regular tweet time) #ufchat
11:16 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat My book Fledgling is out, and the second book Killer will be out in October. #ufchat
11:16 pm editorialdept: @thedaisyharris Well, maybe a story about empty nesters, then? That could be quite amusing πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:17 pm elizabethkarr: Coproduced #syfy adaptation of Philip K Dick novel. @rfamovie http://www.radiofreealbemuth.com 4 newsletter. Plz follow. πŸ™‚ #UFchat
11:17 pm latta: @UF_Chat thank you–i have enjoyed my first few visits to this chat. Thank you for hosting it. Do you post the chatscript?#ufchat
11:17 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat @inkgypsy Um… Immortal is UF. And decidedly non-pet peevish. #ufchat
11:17 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette We looked at 2 aspects – the image and the actual writing. Makes for interesting reading. (& study if writing UF) #ufchat
11:17 pm tasmin21: Also, @Cameron_Haley‘s MOB RULES came out last week! Read it! #UFChat
11:18 pm elizabethkarr: RADIO FREE ALBEMUTH Cast & Crew. Stars Alanis Morissette, Shea Whigham, K Winnick http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1129396/fullcredits #UFchat
11:18 pm dystophil: awesome chat everyone. Thanks for having me and nice to (virtually) meet some new writers πŸ˜€ #ufchat
11:18 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat the image? #ufchat
11:19 pm psynde: RT @tasmin21: Also, @Cameron_Haley‘s MOB RULES came out last week! Read it! #UFChat
11:19 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat I like flawed/abuse UF characters. I like ppl who are determined not to let their crappy childhoods happen to others #ufchat
11:19 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette You might be surprised what people are sick of – worth checking. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:19 pm elizabethkarr: Ashley Greene -Alice Cullen from Twilight- also in my @rfamovie Adapt of Philip K Dick #syfy novel. http://www.radiofreealbemuth.com #UFchat
11:20 pm annikkawoods: That reminds me…I guess my angel/demon story would be UF too. Didn’t think about that. #ufchat
11:20 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat I want my action necessary. Read a book where heroine almost always started the fight w/little reason. MC became a bully. #ufchat
11:20 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette UF has an image as mostly kick-ass chicks,mainly for girls, loner MCs, mainly using vamps weres & demons/angels etc #ufchat
11:21 pm leapetra: @leatherzebra I agree as long as they don’t use the past as an excuse for their actions. There has to be growth. #ufchat
11:21 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat good point. I didn’t set out to write an urban fantasy in the first place. I had to be convinced that was it’s genre. #ufchat
11:21 pm latta: @elizabethkarr @rfamovie Philip K.Dick A Plastic Paradox LATimes piece http://bit.ly/a5V9lU #rfamovie #ufchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: @annikkawoods If set in our world – or our world changed then probably yes. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:21 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat ah, that image. But anything in the present with “fantasy” characters would qualify, yes? #ufchat
11:21 pm imkarenb: RT @leapetra: practical vampire hunter wear. silver chain mail around exposed skin. Blessed leather Armor and wooden weapons. #ufchat
11:21 pm leatherzebra: @leapetra Absolutely growth. Bad spawning good, people defending each other, that’s what I like. #ufchat
11:22 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette The image isn’t necessarily the reality but some cliches are true too. We discussed a lot of that. #ufchat
11:22 pm leapetra: @leatherzebra of course! #ufchat
11:22 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Cops are heroes are missing. Firefighter leads. School teachers ) #ufchat
11:23 pm RoseanneSchmidt: #ufchat: When’s the next chat? I would like to join in sooner next time I’d like to learn what makes UF tick, cause that’s what i most enjoy
11:23 pm tasmin21: All right, wandering off to be domestic. Later, folk! #UFChat
11:23 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette Our (recognizable) world with supernatural/paranormal element or our world changed to include that qualifies. #ufchat
11:23 pm annikkawoods: @UF_Chat It is. It’s set in a very dark version of Boise, ID actually. *blush* My hometown. #ufchat
11:23 pm UF_Chat: @UF_Chat lights out. πŸ˜‰ Transcript available on the #UFchat blog in 36hrs-ish, allowing for late comments. Just use the hashtag. #ufchat
11:24 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat I’ve never understood the “write what you like to read” tendency when taken to that level of mimicry. #ufchat
11:24 pm leatherzebra: @UF_Chat Lots of series stop character growth to avoid coming to an end. I dislike that. Sometimes “time” stops too. #ufchat
11:24 pm elizabethkarr: @latta http://bit.ly/a5V9lU TY! Link you sent from @latimes used photo still of Shea Whigham who plays PKD in our movie @rfamovie #UFchat
11:24 pm UF_Chat: @RoseanneSchmidt Every Sat at 3pmPST/6pm EST -topic announced day before. Follow @UF_Chat for updates & reminders or me (@inkgypsy) #ufchat
11:25 pm leapetra: @GeneDoucette That’s why I do not read why writing my WIP. I end up copying the other author’s voice. #ufchat
11:25 pm GeneDoucette: @leapetra oooh, I do that too. #ufchat
11:26 pm GeneDoucette: @leapetra but really “i like this story about a leather-bound heroine and a vampire love” shouldn’t become… #ufchat
11:26 pm GeneDoucette: @leapetra “…I’ll write a story just like that” #ufchat
11:26 pm leapetra: Maybe next week we could bring this up. But why only the “nice places” in towns. Why not more homeless shelters, clinics, etc #ufchat
11:26 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette Don’t think people set out to mimic -they’re a) inspired by ideas & do own version or b) try to snag popular market #ufchat
11:27 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat it’s the “b” that bugs me. Actually, both do. I have the same problem with RP #ufchat
11:27 pm annikkawoods: @leapetra @GeneDoucette I end up reading something other than what I’m working on. Right now I’m reading UF/WIP is epic fantasy. #ufchat
11:28 pm leapetra: @GeneDoucette That is true. I usually think about it and then mess around with the idea. until it’s mine. #ufchat
11:28 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra I’ve seen a bit of that but I gravitate to darker UF. Agree could use more working class, street class people to populate #ufchat
11:28 pm annikkawoods: @leapetra Drug rehab centers are good too. My angel/demon thing has some events take place in one. #ufchat
11:29 pm GeneDoucette: @annikkawoods I have to stay away from fiction when writing fiction. #ufchat
11:29 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette All we can do is to write the best book we can & be educated about what we’re doing. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:29 pm GeneDoucette: @annikkawoods It was pointed out to me that Immortal is in the voice of a noir detective; I don’t know WHAT I was reading. #ufchat
11:30 pm annikkawoods: @GeneDoucette I get too bored. I can only read so much history, true crime, or tech manuals. #ufchat
11:30 pm sidhevicious: @editorialdept I’m the opposite, definitely not a big fan of 3rd person. I prefer 1st. #ufchat
11:30 pm latta: @UF_Chat i have to run–i have a colleague stuck on tarmac & broken sat phone, use some of @leapetra universe jumping #ufchat
11:31 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette Agree – I mostly read non-fic when writing fic & vice versa. Others I know do opposite tho & they write very well. #ufchat
11:31 pm leapetra: @UF_Chat I agree, That’s why I have bouncers, shop owners, bartenders, and unemployed in my stories; #ufchat
11:31 pm GeneDoucette: @annikkawoods I read mostly non-fic anyway, so, it’s not a leap. #ufchat
11:32 pm jimnduncan: I just need to read more UF in general. Didn’t really until my pub said they were buying my UF and I was like, uhm, my thriller? #ufchat
11:32 pm UF_Chat: @latta Wishing you a tardis, or a unicorn with seven league boots… πŸ˜‰ #ufchat
11:32 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat to each her own, I know. I’m not judging, per se. #ufchat
11:33 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan There’s a good variety of it now, thank goodness. What’s on your TBR pile right now? #ufchat
11:33 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat but seems like everyone is using the same rules for the same creatures. #ufchat
11:33 pm sidhevicious: RT @tasmin21: Also, @Cameron_Haley‘s MOB RULES came out last week! Read it! #UFChat
11:34 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat I hate Twlght, but at least with vamps sparkling she made it her own. #ufchat
11:34 pm UF_Chat: @leapetra I like to see a variety of people & places like in real cities. #ufchat
11:34 pm annikkawoods: @GeneDoucette You can use similar rules, but I think it’s how you apply them. #ufchat
11:35 pm GeneDoucette: @annikkawoods I used vamps in Immortal, but made them non “magical”. Much more tolerable for me. #ufchat
11:35 pm annikkawoods: @leapetra Yeah, a variety of “normal” people (even if they’re not normal in the sense of species) really makes for a good world. #ufchat
11:35 pm leapetra: @GeneDoucette I had a fan tell me she liked how my vampire said he doesn’t need to kill, meaning he could. #ufchat
11:36 pm jimnduncan: @UF_Chat reading a harlan coben book now, might try pc cast book next, or stacia kane’s downside books. #ufchat
11:37 pm GeneDoucette: @jimnduncan Try Immortal. coming out 10/1. And yes, I’m shameless. #ufchat
11:37 pm annikkawoods: @GeneDoucette *nods* Only the oldest vamps in my stories are “magical”. The rest are durable but killable. #ufchat
11:37 pm annikkawoods: @GeneDoucette *adds you to the TBR list* #ufchat
11:37 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan PC Cast is good though I found some inconsistencies that bothered me. Stacia Kane’s are among the best. #ufchat
11:38 pm annikkawoods: @jimnduncan *adds you to the TBR list* #ufchat
11:38 pm annikkawoods: @leapetra And you’re already on the TBR list. LOL #ufchat
11:38 pm leapetra: @annikkawoods I have a vampire that uses magic, but any one could if they study enough. #ufchat
11:38 pm GeneDoucette: @annikkawoods giving away two free copies of the ARC on GoodReads right now… #ufchat
11:38 pm jimnduncan: @annikkawoods lol, thanks. I’d shamelessly plug my Deadworld book, but it isn’t out until April. #ufchat
11:39 pm annikkawoods: @GeneDoucette REALLY? *runs over to Goodreads* #ufchat
11:39 pm annikkawoods: @GeneDoucette When you get a strange little fan named Alison show up, plz don’t be alarmed. It’s me. LOL #ufchat
11:39 pm GeneDoucette: Urban Fantasy, immortal narrator, no magic. Fun stuff. #ufchat
11:39 pm leapetra: @jimnduncan Why not I am already plugging my minstrel story and that’s not out until then. not UF either. πŸ˜› #ufchat
11:40 pm GeneDoucette: @annikkawoods it has reached page 1 in most requested there. Very happy with that. #ufchat
11:40 pm UF_Chat: @GeneDoucette Is place 4 cliches, familiar tropes which is good. Your title 4 eg is well used word in UF but not a bad thing. #ufchat
11:40 pm GeneDoucette: shortcut to the giveaway: http://bit.ly/c6hy4r #ufchat
11:41 pm annikkawoods: @GeneDoucette That is awesome. And the blurb on it looks interesting. #ufchat
11:41 pm GeneDoucette: @UF_Chat yes, I found I had to spend a lot of time saying “Adam is not a vampire” #ufchat
11:42 pm jimnduncan: I’ll probably start plugging away once I have a cover. Though it’s great and odd at same time that you can preorder my book already. #ufchat
11:42 pm GeneDoucette: @annikkawoods thanks, and god I hope so. The blurb is what it’s all about when attracting interest in the giveaways. #ufchat
11:43 pm GeneDoucette: @jimnduncan hah. I can’t preorder yet, for something out in 3 weeks. My publisher and I are going back and forth on it. #ufchat
11:43 pm annikkawoods: The blurb is the first thing I look at when picking up books. If the premise is interesting I’ll check out the 1st 3 chapters. #ufchat
11:43 pm UF_Chat: Must bow out for now as fun as this is. Please feel free to keep chatting – use the hashtag & I’ll add in transcript. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
11:44 pm rfamovie: Photo from RFA RT @latta: @elizabethkarr @rfamovie Philip K.Dick A Plastic Paradox LATimes piece http://bit.ly/a5V9lU #rfamovie #ufchat
11:45 pm GeneDoucette: OK, good night all. #ufchat
11:45 pm annikkawoods: @GeneDoucette There…added on Goodreads. I’m finding more and more for my TBR list there. #ufchat
11:45 pm GeneDoucette: I have to find a way to make it to this chat sometime. #ufchat
11:45 pm dystophil: I usually go by recommendation/excerpt rather than blurb, but it’s def. important #ufchat
11:46 pm annikkawoods: Right…bowing out myself now. Need pain pills for the leg, and then I’m needing to be #amwriting or nothing’s going to get done. #ufchat
11:46 pm GeneDoucette: @annikkawoods GoodReads is awesome. #ufchat
11:46 pm jimnduncan: I also don’t have an official blurb yet, and I’m not the best blurb writer in the world, so what’s on blog now may not be best ad #ufchat
11:47 pm JulieeJohnsonn: @GeneDoucette me too! I’m always missing #ufchat because of Sat. family commitments! Drat!
11:48 pm GeneDoucette: @JulieeJohnsonn need to push for a second night for this thing. #ufchat
11:49 pm GeneDoucette: OK really do have to go now. Late dog walking. #ufchat
11:49 pm leapetra: I have to bow out to chop up my story into chapters. #ufchat
11:49 pm jimnduncan: And I should probably get back to edits on Deadworld 2 (oh book of the elusive title). #ufchat
11:49 pm GretchenJones: @ElysabethW @tasmin21 #UFChat it’s one thing to be able to bounce a qtr off an ass because it’s firm. Entirely different thing when spanx…
11:50 pm GretchenJones: @ElysabethW @tasmin21 #UFChat (2of2) make the ass into a virtual trampoline for spare change.
11:56 pm Philip_K_Dick: RT @rfamovie: Photo from RFA RT @latta: @elizabethkarr @rfamovie Philip K.Dick A Plastic Paradox LATimes piece http://bit.ly/a5V9lU #rfamovie #ufchat
September 5, 2010
12:07 am editorialdept: Since this was popular in today’s #ufchat, I’m reposting for those who don’t follow the hashtag: Art of the Sex Scene http://bit.ly/dypeN1
1:26 am simonm223: Sorry I missed #ufchat today but #waswriting
2:29 am SpiceBites: Darn I missed #ufchat, but was watching Geoge Clooney πŸ™‚
3:50 am ShadowPhoenix32: just got off work, missed #ufchat will there be another one soon?
5:18 am Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat Missed chat tonight, couldn’t keep myself up – sob. #ufchat
7:51 am AnassaRh: Q4: Love that we get kickass women. Don’t so much love how they tend to fit one or two molds?angry, horny, scarred. #UFchat
7:52 am AnassaRh: I’m definitely with the group (everyone here?) saying “Let’s have different kinds of women.” #UFchat
7:53 am AnassaRh: I’d like to see a strong heroine who’s into scented candles, floral prints, other girly things. Who says tough = leather? #UFChat
7:55 am AnassaRh: I’d also like to see a range of demographics: Asian, African, Middle Eastern, middle-aged, senior, gay? Not every reader’s WASP. #UFChat
7:58 am AnassaRh: I think we’re starting to get that now, but I want to see more, for sure. #UFChat
7:59 am AnassaRh: I’d also like to see heroines with diff. powers. Magic, heritage, and accidents have all been done. What else is there? #UFChat
8:00 am AnassaRh: What about a heroine whose power is the result of a curse or spell? #UFChat
8:01 am AnassaRh: By the way, followers: I’m participating in #UFchat. As I always do on Saturday nights. There will be LOTS of comments forthcoming.
8:03 am AnassaRh: I don’t think it’s as much a case of people bashing female MCs as a matter of bashing the stereotypical UF heroine. @dystophil #UFChat
8:05 am AnassaRh: Yes! Ditto! RT @thedaisyharris: @UF_Chat I’m all about beta heroes, heroes who are virgins, or geeky, or socially inept. #UFchat
8:07 am AnassaRh: Q4a: I want to see men who don’t want to protect the heroine, or who let her get in trouble because they know she’ll handle it. #UFChat
8:08 am AnassaRh: To me, incessant protection = women not good enough = chauvinist = unequal, poss. unhealthy relationship, not long lasting. #UFChat
8:09 am AnassaRh: Not saying relationships with high protection are bad, all the time, or that no woman finds that romantic?but not all do. #UFChat
8:12 am AnassaRh: I think there’s a fine line between “dominant, strong male” and “jerk”. The position of that line’s probably up for debate. #UFChat
8:15 am AnassaRh: I’d like more alpha heroes in stable relationships, rather than on-again, off-again, or one-girl-per-novel. Players turn me off. #UFChat
8:19 am AnassaRh: Q5: How physically weak can we make an MC and still have a successful plot? How mentally weak? #UFChat
8:21 am AnassaRh: Though it peeves me when any sort of weakness is used to draw out the plot. #UFChat
8:24 am AnassaRh: And yes, MCs with brains, creativity, resourcefulness, rather than only brawn. Ones who turn everyday objects into weapons in fights #ufchat
8:25 am AnassaRh: I wonder? how many sword-wielding MCs are written by people familiar with Highlander? Thinking of that dojo comment. #UFChat
8:35 am AnassaRh: Q5a: I prefer my monster races to be dangerous, evil, or at least morally grey if “good guys”. Scare me! #ufchat
8:37 am AnassaRh: I don’t find vamps/weres/etc. convincing if they act like humans in every way. And love interest monsters are clichΓ©. #ufchat
8:38 am AnassaRh: I’d like to see more monsters from non-Western canons. @katrchrdsn wrote a great book with an indigenous monster. #ufchat
8:40 am AnassaRh: I’d also like more attempts to blend disparate legends or mythoses. World where multiple kinds of demons exist, logically. #ufchat
8:41 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh *waves* Checking in – haven’t caught up on it all myself yet – was toddler juggling today too. #UFchat
8:41 am AnassaRh: Where’s the danger today? Not in death, corpses, possession. In addiction, poverty, government? In technology? #ufchat
8:42 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh I’m loving people wanting more diversity in people & in monsters. And in professions (you’ll get there) #UFchat
8:44 am AnassaRh: A psi-eating monster that uses ChatRoulette? A monster that steals your identity? A monster that traps you in your cellphone? #ufchat
8:45 am AnassaRh: I picture a climax in a library. OED vs. Encyclopedia Brittanica! RT @leapetra: @inkgrrl favorite unconventional weapon. A book. #ufchat
8:48 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy I’m loving that too! Hopefully in a year or so, that desire will find its way to print. #ufchat
8:48 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh I’d like to see more regional logic in monsters present – vamps everywhere doesn’t make sense unless very different kinds #UFchat
8:49 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Excellent! Working on that too… #UFchat BTW dopplegangers are starting to appear more (identity stealers)
8:50 am AnassaRh: Or half-fathomable? You agree, until? RT@tasmin21: I like monsters whs motivations r unfathomable.Makes them unpredictable + scarier #UFChat
8:55 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy Yes! Pretty sure every culture has some kind of vamp/were. Why ignore that? I’m partial to the Chinese vamp, m’self. #ufchat
8:56 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy And are doppelgangers, really? I’ve seen one, as a minor antag, but not as a major villain. #ufchat
8:57 am AnassaRh: Agree.RT @leapetra: @UF_Chat I think if you use the abuse as a reason why they have to change, not as an excuse for their behavior. #ufchat
9:00 am AnassaRh: Q5c: Not just abused, but other kinds of trauma, damage. Yes, overused, but I’ll still gladly read. #ufchat
9:03 am AnassaRh: Q5d: Honestly? I’d stop reading if angry girl in leather. Doesn’t hook me. Unrealistic too, and for that, I’ll say unacceptable. #ufchat
9:04 am AnassaRh: Q5d: I don’t think it’s still true, at all. I’ve met a number of rational heroines in the last few years. #ufchat
9:05 am AnassaRh: We may be in danger of In Over Her Head Syndrome, though. Women thrown into events without ever getting their feet. #ufchat
9:07 am AnassaRh: My taste runs to somewhat bloody, damaging action. No gore. Dislike ppl who rush in w/o lay of land, causing massive bloodshed. #ufchat
9:11 am AnassaRh: Q6: I roll my eyes whenever MC goes fighting in tight or scant clothing. Even with quick healing, why invite injury? #ufchat
9:11 am AnassaRh: How many monster fighters wear actual armor? Kevlar? #ufchat
9:12 am AnassaRh: Or contacts. Or braces? RT @dystophil: Glasses. More UF MCs should wear them. And I’m not talking about sunglasses. #ufchat
9:15 am AnassaRh: Mixing fashion with McGyver: The Swiss Army Wedge Heel? #ufchat
9:18 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Laura Resnick has dopplegangers in her latest. #UFchat http://amzn.to/dwhDmG Want to read.
9:19 am AnassaRh: Note on chainmail: attended demo @ con. Demonstrator said chainmail was to stop from being cut by armor, not to deflect blows. #ufchat
9:20 am AnassaRh: Also, it’s bloody heavy. Seriously. No one would run in it without massive stamina. #ufchat
9:22 am AnassaRh: Q3: Again, I seem to agree with everyone. Would love fewer triangles, less abuse, more commitment. #ufchat
9:23 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Protective clothing is heavier than most realize, weight plus layers makes U sweat – a LOT. #UFchat
9:23 am AnassaRh: I’d love to see awkwardness, missed connections, faux pas, rather than instant clicking. #ufchat
9:24 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Ojne thing I didn’t get time to mention – would love to see more modern cities internationally, + mix US & Intl too #UFchat
9:25 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh The Chinese vamp – not the kappa (which I am using!) but…? Having mental block here. #UFchat
9:26 am AnassaRh: Q7: Overused locations: big cities. American and British cities. Interesting? Paris. Berlin. Prague. #ufchat
9:27 am AnassaRh: A UF writer with guts could tackle Dresden, Warsaw, Hamburg, and the WWII/Holocaust connections. #ufchat
9:28 am AnassaRh: I’d also like to see mid-population cities. Places that aren’t happening like Vegas, LA, NYC, but are still regional centers. #ufchat
9:28 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh And too – what’s NOT over used is making sure the places used have that unique ‘flavor’ of place beyond few landmarks. #UFchat
9:30 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh It’s happened in fiction (WWII connections) a lot but not so much in UF yet – happening more now than 2 yrs ago. #UFchat
9:30 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy No, kappa’s Japanese. Chinese vamp = jiang shi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiang_Shi #ufchat
9:31 am AnassaRh: Oh! And I’d like to see more historical UF. I know of Victorian London and Jazz Age New York. There should be more. #ufchat
9:31 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Thanks – knew kappa was Japanese (up on my research there) Just drew blank on the chinese version. #UFchat
9:32 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy Ooh, mixing countries and cities would be cool! I’ve seen it once, but there are so many possibilities! #ufchat
9:33 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Haven’t seen many snow based monsters either – or kitsune – would like to see more than snow-thugs of abominables πŸ˜€ #UFchat
9:33 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy I know WWII’s cropped up in fiction, all over. UF ? not so much. Would have ample room for ghosts, if nothing else. #ufchat
9:33 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Seriously! And doesn’t it make you want to write six books at once thinking about it?! #UFchat LOL (Mixing cities/countries)
9:34 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh There are a few P.N.Elrod’s of course, and the vamp during the 20’s – have to go look it up. #UFchat Also have a Nazi vamp bk here
9:35 am AnassaRh: Huh. Reading the Q7 comments further ? looks like I’m not the only one wanting smaller centers. Yay! #ufchat
9:38 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Here’s a post suggesting 3 plus The Native Star (new rel.) but there are more: http://bit.ly/9WtIuh #UFchat (historical UF)
9:39 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy Elrod? *notes* Any and all historical UF would be appreciated. (Want to write jazz age at some point.) #ufchat
9:40 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy Thanks for the link! Moonshine and Native Star are already on TBR list! Other two to follow. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
9:41 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Moonshine looks interesting re roaring 20’s (see link I tweeted you) #UFchat Will have topic on historical UF soon.
9:41 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy Going back to the snow-based monsters: Something like Anderson’s Snow Queen, maybe? #ufchat
9:42 am AnassaRh: RT @thedaisyharris: Y’know what you don’t see in written UF that is big in TV SF? Abvious race relation/class stratification metaphors. What gives? #UFchat
9:44 am AnassaRh: Q7a: I’ve seen a lot of alleys. As long as they’re not for clichΓ© reasons, I’m cool though. Not tired of anything else?if done well. #ufchat
9:45 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh She’s a complex character (SQ) and could be used more (as could Baba Yaga’s complexities) but thinking Yuki-Onna #UFchat
9:46 am AnassaRh: Q7b: I’d like to see MCs who aren’t in law inforcement. You don’t have to be a cop/PI/agent to solve a mystery. #ufchat
9:47 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh Getting tired of the bars myself. Think it’s to do with the 20’s & younger MC crowd tho. #UFchat Pubs not so much. Diff atmosphere
9:48 am AnassaRh: I’d like to see either mundane jobs (secretary, retail) or uber-glamourous (rock star, actress). But with research, of course. #ufchat
9:50 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy Ah yes. I’d forgotten about bars? #ufchat
9:52 am AnassaRh: Q8: I love when characters develop over a series, and when subplots do. Love knowing I’ll see the characters again. #ufchat
9:53 am AnassaRh: I get annoyed when the plots start growing similar. Keep feeling I’ve read them before, and too many similar lose my interest. #ufchat
9:54 am AnassaRh: I’m also annoyed when writers pull a twist partway through that propels the plot for another X books. Smacks of laziness. #ufchat
9:55 am inkgypsy: @AnassaRh I must to bed – but great chatting with you for a bit! love your comments. #UFchat
9:55 am AnassaRh: I’d like to see more UF that’s actiony and thrilling, but lacks a mystery. Can we have quests? Coming of age? Coming to terms? #ufchat
9:57 am AnassaRh: @inkgypsy I must to bed soon too. You’ve kept me far too late! *yawns* Twas certainly great chatting. Thanks for staying. πŸ™‚ #ufchat
9:58 am AnassaRh: Q9: I haven’t read enough UF in 3rd to do accurate comparison. Need more 3rd! #ufchat
9:59 am AnassaRh: Or mystery-UF, anyway. If we’re talking Gaiman, deLint, etc? Actually, I enjoy both about equally, I think. #ufchat
10:00 am AnassaRh: I like 1st person for the immediacy. I get in the characters’ heads more, feel more drawn into the mystery if done well. #ufchat
10:00 am AnassaRh: I also like how descriptions come across in 1st. I get a sense of the character from them, and a better image. #ufchat
10:02 am AnassaRh: 3rd’s good for being omniscient. I enjoy seeing the world from an outside perspective, and glimpsing multiple characters’ minds. #ufchat
10:02 am AnassaRh: I also think it’s pretty rare to find multiple POVs in first person, whereas they’re common in third. #ufchat
10:03 am AnassaRh: I think I agree with @UF_Chat‘s statement re: similar voices. I’ve noticed that too. Unique voices absorb me far more. #ufchat
10:05 am AnassaRh: Q9a: I prefer to think of UF attitude as “doing what has to be done, consequences be damned”. FU strikes me as too angry-girl. #ufchat
10:13 am AnassaRh: And that’s it for me for tonight. Will have to mull over final question and comment later. Know I have wishes, can’t think of them? #ufchat
12:38 pm simonm223: @AbassaRh I’ve seen multiple PoV work in first person recently, find it a little disjointed to be honest. #ufchat
4:51 pm leapetra: @annikkawoods @dianapfrancis @SateliteKnitter It is a tough question, maybe I will bring it up on the next #UFchat
5:43 pm LisaMBasso: RT @leapetra: practical vampire hunter wear. silver chain mail around exposed skin. Blessed leather Armor and wooden weapons. #ufchat
7:40 pm AnassaRh: Okay, final #UFChat thoughts incoming! Twas 3 am when I signed off, but I’m awake now.
7:42 pm AnassaRh: I would like to see UF become consistently well-written and well-plotted. I’d like to see it tackle more serious themes. #ufchat
7:43 pm AnassaRh: I’d like to see more multiculturalism?more races, more religions, clashes, acceptance, coexistence. #ufchat
7:44 pm AnassaRh: I’d like to see more locations. I’d like to see series that aren’t limited to a single city. #ufchat
7:45 pm AnassaRh: I’d like to see more series like Armstrong’s or Pratchett’s: multiple protags, multiple intra-series storylines, but a single world. #ufchat
7:46 pm AnassaRh: I’d like to see more logic + science. One article linked to @ end of chat was about scientist’s take on magic. I agree with writer. #ufchat
7:47 pm AnassaRh: I’d like to see UF explore the sci-fi boundary more. Right now it crosses with mystery, horror, romance. Fewer SFy ones. #ufchat
7:48 pm AnassaRh: And I’d like to see different kinds of powers, different monsters, MCs without enhancements. Also, stable relationships. #ufchat
7:51 pm AnassaRh: I think that’s all for wishes. Possibly I dream too big, but I hope not. Based on #ufchat comments, I think we’ll get there in a few years.
7:52 pm AnassaRh: @inkgypsy Oooh, Baba Yaga! And yeah, was thinking of Yuki-Onna too, but couldn’t retrieve name. #UFChat
September 6, 2010
4:09 am inkgypsy: Putting up #UFchat transcript soon -anyone want to add comments? Pet peeves we missed? Wish-lists for future UFs? Uses hashtag -will add. πŸ™‚
4:43 am cindymariej: @inkgypsy On the topic of #UFchat , where do the boundaries between #UF and #fantasy blur? Is UF set in the world as we know it? #random
9:25 am UF_Chat: Had urgent things to take care of this evening (not a zombie apocalypse but almost!) – #UFchat transcript upload will happen tomorrow now.
9:25 am inkgypsy: Had urgent things to take care of this evening (not a zombie apocalypse but almost!) – #UFchat transcript upload will happen tomorrow now.
8:23 pm inkgypsy: THAT is hilarious! #UFchat RT @mudsock: @inkgypsy Dora the vampire slayer http://bit.ly/cC9WXQ
8:33 pm ShadowPhoenix32: @inkgypsy when is the next #UFchat going to be?
8:55 pm inkgypsy: @ShadowPhoenix32 Sorry! Thought I had replied. #UFchat is every Saturday at 3pm PST/ 6pm EST – topic usually announced day before. πŸ™‚
9:19 pm inkgypsy: @leapetra Just read your question about naming businesses. I know some do – suggest write it that way then check before pubbing. #UFchat
9:24 pm inkgypsy: RT @leapetra: Thanks to #UFChat am now looking at other monsters over looked in the urban fantasy genre. Come on, the Mothman needs loving.
9:38 pm Jamgrrl: RT @inkgypsy: THAT is hilarious! #UFchat RT @mudsock: @inkgypsy Dora the vampire slayer http://bit.ly/cC9WXQ
10:02 pm inkgypsy: RT for #UFchat If I had a wish it would be that people explore various international monsters as they have vamps/weres/zombies -so unmined!
10:27 pm jbeemills: RT @inkgypsy: RT for #UFchat If I had a wish it would be that people explore various international monsters as they have vamps/weres/zombies -so unmined!
10:44 pm inkgypsy: UF pet peeve: When tons of monsters are crammed into a story – like populating your book with every race/minority – overkill. #UFchat
10:50 pm ShadowPhoenix32: #UFchat i like the idea of a half-breed MC, but i don’t want to do any cliche hybrids like demons, vampires, elves, fairies. thoughts? (1/2)
10:51 pm ShadowPhoenix32: (2/2) #UFchat i kind of like the idea of a human/angel hybrid. i don’t think i’ve ever read one before
10:59 pm inkgypsy: @ShadowPhoenix32 Angels = rising trend but yet to catch up on it. What kind of half-breed interests U? What kind of powers/problems? #UFchat
11:03 pm inkgypsy: Important thing I’ve gleaned from #UFchat last 2 wks: plenty of room still for some UF standards/cliches – just make them fresh, mix it up.
11:05 pm inkgypsy: It won’t satisfy everyone, but then what book could? #UFchat Impossible 2 incorporate all wish-lists/should be. Writing well = best solution
September 7, 2010
12:38 am inkgypsy: UF people should be aware of this online source: Monstropedia http://bit.ly/cecGRC #UFchat
12:41 am HC_Palmquist: RT @inkgypsy: UF people should be aware of this online source: Monstropedia http://bit.ly/cecGRC #UFchat
12:46 am wulfshado: RT @inkgypsy: UF people should be aware of this online source: Monstropedia http://bit.ly/cecGRC #UFchat
12:46 am jolantru: RT @inkgypsy: UF people should be aware of this online source: Monstropedia http://bit.ly/cecGRC #UFchat
12:52 am jflamingo2: RT @inkgypsy: UF people should be aware of this online source: Monstropedia http://bit.ly/cecGRC #UFchat
12:54 am sarahcoldheart: RT @inkgypsy: UF people should be aware of this online source: Monstropedia http://bit.ly/cecGRC #UFchat
1:06 am tadbo: Sweet! *bookmarks* RT @inkgypsy: UF people should be aware of this online source: Monstropedia http://bit.ly/cecGRC #UFchat
1:09 am inkgypsy: #UFchat alert! RT @leapetra I love mosterpedia. Watch my blog (this) week-putting up some creatures from folklore overlook(ed) in UF
1:14 am ShadowPhoenix32: @inkgypsy #ufchat monstropedia is one of my favorite resources
1:18 am inkgypsy: Just read about a vampire that turns into either a ball of fire or a turkey to gain access to a house… Thanksgiving revenge? #UFchat
1:20 am Saffy: Is #UFchat still on?
1:23 am ShadowPhoenix32: @inkgypsy i just read about a vampire that changes like that, can’t remember what it’s called though #ufchat
1:27 am inkgypsy: @ShadowPhoenix32 The ‘tlaciques’ – Mexican/Aztec female vamp. #UFchat (turkey or ball of fire instead of bat)
1:34 am inkgypsy: @Saffy Feel free to add your thoughts – use the hashtag #UFchat & I’ll add them to the transcript. Topic was pet peeves of UF & what U want.
1:44 am hashtager: # @Saffy Feel free to add your thoughts – use the hashtag #UFchat & I’ll add them to the transcript. Topic was pet peeves of UF & what…
3:52 am HP4Writers: RT @inkgypsy UF people should be aware of this online source: Monstropedia http://bit.ly/cecGRC #UFchat
8:40 am leapetra: Mari Miniatt: These Creatures are Up for Adoption. part 1 http://bit.ly/dwGlJL #UFChat #folklore
8:44 am MariMiniatt: These Creatures are Up for Adoption. part 1: In a recent #UFchat on Twitter, pet peeves of the Urban Fantasy genre… http://bit.ly/9WcnJw
12:22 pm SpiceBites: @inkgypsy Thanks for posting #ufchat recap!
2:06 pm leapetra: Mari Miniatt: These Creatures are Up for Adoption. part 1 http://bit.ly/dwGlJL #UFChat #folklore #monsters
2:11 pm P_Nottingham: RT @leapetra: Mari Miniatt: These Creatures are Up for Adoption. part 1 http://bit.ly/dwGlJL #UFChat #folklore #monsters
9:44 pm leapetra: These Creatures are Up for Adoption. part 1 http://bit.ly/dwGlJL #UFChat #folklore #monsters #fantasy
11:31 pm inkgypsy: Humans are people too! #UFchat RT @LucienneDiver: Guest blogger today @Rob_Thurman with “Diversity in Urban Fantasy” http://bit.ly/bdKqoC
11:42 pm inkgypsy: Problem: ‘whatthehashtag’ will NOT show Saturday’s #UFchat today either! The more time goes by the less likely too. Arg! Suggestions?
11:45 pm inkgypsy: @WookiesGirl I’ve been trying to retrieve the transcript for Saturday’s #UFchat since yesterday but it’s only showing Sun, Mon on. Help!
11:55 pm J_GriffinB: What is the average word count of a UF novel? #ufchat

___________________________________

END OF TRANSCRIPT FOR SEPTEMBER 4th, 2010

Again people are scribbling ideas, revisiting their WIPs and blogging thoughtfully after this chat!

Feel free to add thoughts and resources during the week as you think them or find them – just use the #UFchat hashtag so I can find them and add them to the discussion & transcript.

The β€œPublished UF authors on Twitter” page for the blog (check the link at the very top of the page) is slowly growing (there are a LOT of UF authors on Twitter!) and it’s and linked it to a list on Twitter for easy following.

If you see someone you think should be on there, there’s a good chance I just haven’t gotten to adding them yet BUT please always feel free to add suggestions by @-ing @inkgypsy and I’ll add them to the list ASAP.

Stay tuned to @UF_Chat on Twitter for next weeks topic, countdowns and updates.

See you next week!

Gypsy (@inkgypsy)