#UFchat – chat for urban fantasy writers

Transcript for Aug 21, 2010: The UF & PNR Overlap with Special Guest Q&A with Patti O’Shea

What a fabulous discussion today! It was very busy but our multi-award winning and bestselling special guest author, Patti O’Shea, did an amazing job of keeping all the questions and answers straight.

Patti O’Shea is the author of the Light Warriors series, the Crimson City series, the Jarved Nine series and many other action paranormal romance/urban fantasy & futuristic books. Her books have won multiple awards including a Beacon Award on August 1st for “Edge of Dawn” winning Best Paranormal of 2010! Congratulations Patti! Her books have a wonderful mix of hard action, paranormal and passion.

Again, I’ve added a color coding to aid in reading the topic/question and answer flow and to point out announcements and resources:

YELLOW = official #UFchat statement and questions to be discussed (I left the discussion additions the same as everyone else’s) – this week I’ve also made participant questions Patti replies to YELLOW too. 🙂

PINK = Patti’s responses.

GREEN = #UFchat announcements

BLUE = resources (links, posts and essays relating to today’s topic)

Without further ado, here is the transcript from our chat on Saturday.

TOPIC: The UF/PNR overlap – what’s hot, what’s not, what’s the attraction for readers, for writers, what UF owes romance and more!

AND
a special Q&A with Patti too!
9:48 pm snowppl: RT @inkgypsy: #UFchat Boot time! Going to need gloves today too. 15 mins till the UF vs PNR Q&A smackdown – w bestseller @Patti_OShea! Bring questions!
9:51 pm UF_Chat: Please don’t let Twitter be broken! We’ve got a smackdown happening in 10 minutes! & front row seats too.. #UFchat
9:52 pm Patti_OShea: #UFchat starts in 8 minutes. Brace yourselves!
9:54 pm MetaPhoenix: @Patti_OShea I love when followers need to be warned. So epic! #UFchat
9:55 pm kaitnolan: 545. It’s not great, but it’s words and it meets my minimum just in time for #UFchat Gonna feed the dogs and settle in for FUN!
9:55 pm Queryaddict: RT @UF_Chat: #UFchat Boot time! Going to need gloves today too. 15 mins till the UF vs PNR Q&A smackdown – w bestseller @Patti_OShea! Bring questions!
9:57 pm snowppl: I’m ready for #ufchat. If you’re not participating, you should. @rcmurphy needs to join us.
9:57 pm UF_Chat: Bother – my Tweetdeck backup isn’t cooperating. If there are delays – my apologies – it’s not me. It’s gremlins – seriously. #UFchat
9:57 pm Queryaddict: First time on #ufchat! Excited to see how things work around here 🙂
9:57 pm Patti_OShea: @MetaPhoenix heh. I’m good at epic tweets. I figure I’ll end up in Twitter jail before chat is over. #ufchat
9:57 pm Diane_Amy: I’m new to this chat. All settled in and ready to go! #UFchat
9:58 pm Cameron_Haley: #UFchat in 2.
9:58 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: I’m ready for my UF boys! #UFchat
9:58 pm UF_Chat: You heard the lady! (And her boots are serious pro editions!) RT @Patti_OShea: #UFchat starts in 8 minutes. Brace yourselves!
9:58 pm inkgypsy: You heard the lady! (And her boots are serious pro editions!) RT @Patti_OShea: #UFchat starts in 8 minutes. Brace yourselves!
9:58 pm 1hope1dream: *sneaks in and waves* I should be working on one of my WIPs. Instead I’ll come chat for a while. 😀 #UFchat
9:58 pm snowppl: @RCMurphy haha pssst *I’m a moderator* #justsayin #UFchat
9:59 pm marirandomities: RT @UF_Chat: You heard the lady! (And her boots are serious pro editions!) RT @Patti_OShea: #UFchat starts in 8 minutes. Brace yourselves!
9:59 pm Cameron_Haley: Hi, all! Nice to see all of you again. #UFchat
10:01 pm snowppl: @Cameron_Haley hi! 🙂 #UFchat
10:01 pm UF_Chat: 3, 2.. and we are LIVE for the #UFchat smackdown today! UF vs PNR (& where they overlap) Welcome! #UFchat
10:01 pm J_GriffinB: hopes no one can see him. Not looking his best. #ufchat
10:01 pm 1hope1dream: RT @inkgypsy: You heard the lady! (And her boots are serious pro editions!) RT @Patti_OShea: #UFchat starts in 8 minutes. Brace yourselves!
10:01 pm UF_Chat: TODAY: The Urban Fantasy (UF) & Paranormal Romance (PNR) overlap. What?s hot, what?s not, what they share, what they don?t. #UFchat
10:01 pm snowppl: @UF_Chat thanks 🙂 #UFchat
10:02 pm 1hope1dream: Wow…Alice finished right in time. #UFchat
10:02 pm jeremymcnabb: @J_GriffinB – Don’t worry. It’s #ufchat, not #ufvideochat
10:03 pm UF_Chat: Often meet writers who find selves writing PNR & then start reading. What?s the attraction for writers of PNR as opposed to readers? #UFchat
10:03 pm J_GriffinB: is no longer concerned, thanks to @jeremymcnabb #ufchat
10:04 pm snowppl: @jeremymcnabb thank goodness LOL i’m a mess too #ufchat #ufvideochat
10:04 pm UF_Chat: What writing conventions does urban fantasy owe to the romance influence? Or does it at all? – you tell me. 😉 #UFchat
10:04 pm kaitnolan: @UF_Chat It’s the best of both worlds–the otherworldly we love about UF but also the romance. #UFchat
10:05 pm Queryaddict: my understanding is any romance must have a happy ending, not so much with UF #ufchat

FROM @RCMurphy: @Queryaddict Not all romance has a happy ending. Para-romance simply follows the relationship #UFchat

10:05 pm editorialdept: I think a lot of people like to read a bit of romance – so much the merrier if it’s got paranormal characters. #ufchat
10:06 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat Seems to me it’s all about the relationship and the travails of its maintenance or development. #ufchat
10:06 pm 1hope1dream: @UF_Chat Romance – or at least the pursuit of what they think of as romance – drives people, whether it leads to a happy end or not. #UFchat
10:06 pm elizabethkarr: @snowppl Can you plz send link to get in the room for #UFchat
10:06 pm UF_Chat: So what do you see as difference between UF & PNR? Are they close relatives or actually different beasts sharing paranormal space? #UFchat
10:06 pm tasmin21: I don’t think UF & Romance conventions are alike. Romance would be romance, be it w/ humans or creatures. UF…not so much. #ufchat
10:06 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: From a booksellers’ perspective it’s a bugger. #UFChat
10:06 pm The_Sims_3: RT @Ben_Aaronovitch @1hope1dream Play Sims3 while taking part and watching Alice. #UFchat
10:07 pm J_GriffinB: And uf/para have boundless entities to bounce the romance between #ufchat
10:07 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr http://tweetchat.com/room/UFchat 🙂 #UFchat
10:07 pm snowppl: @elizabethkarr you are in #UFchat just search the hashtag and you’re there!
10:07 pm kaitnolan: PNR has more rigid and specific conventions to follow. Readers expect HEA or HFN and certain behavior of hero/heroine #UFchat
10:07 pm UF_Chat: @Ben_Aaronovitch The ‘where do you shelve it’ question? #UFchat
10:07 pm jeremymcnabb: #UFchat and also, UF might focus more on unique pairings as opposed to workable romances in PNR
10:08 pm J_GriffinB: @elizabethkarr http://tweetchat.com/room/ufchat #ufchat
10:08 pm editorialdept: major diff is UF doesn’t NEED a romantic element. It’s not integral to the genre. Likewise, romantic elements doesn’t = pure romance #ufchat
10:08 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat Thanx 4 link. First time here. Will mostly listen. #UFchat
10:08 pm UF_Chat: @kaitnolan What certain behavior as opposed to a UF relationship? (helping to define the differences here) #UFchat
10:08 pm kaitnolan: @jeremymcnabb Disagree. We LOVE our impossible relationships in PNR. #UFchat
10:08 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @kaitnolan HEA? HFN? #UFchat

FROM @RCMurphy: @Ben_Aaronovitch Happily ever after… #UFchat

10:09 pm snowppl: @UF_Chat how do I not know these link things. I suppose @nambu spoils me #UFchat
10:09 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Glad to see you! It’ll be a fun one – Patti’s here in just 5 mins to drill, er, Q&A with 😉 #UFchat
10:09 pm pauljessup: @UF_Chat Diff. beasts. Most def. Urban Fantasy come from noir and horror. PR is more Rom centric #UFchat
10:09 pm kaitnolan: @UF_Chat As in with PNR hero and heroine CAN’T hook up w/ someone else. No cheating. Relationship type rules. #UFchat

FROM @RCMurphy: @kaitnolan Whereas UF is more overcoming outside influences…. Man I am blurring lines right & left in my work. lol #UFchat

10:09 pm editorialdept: It’s possible to have a romantic subplot w/out being bound by convention of happily ever after in UF (and PNR, too?) #ufchat
10:09 pm kaitnolan: @Ben_Aaronovitch Happily ever after or Happily for now. #UFchat
10:09 pm jeremymcnabb: @kaitnolan Haha, but do you love them for the pairing, or for the complicated romance itself? #UFchat
10:09 pm UF_Chat: @Ben_Aaronovitch Happily Ever After. Happily For Now. #UFchat
10:09 pm ellestonewrites: Happily Ever After/ Happy For now #ufchat
10:10 pm jimnduncan: Is there any significant differences beyond the HEA? Certainly a fair amount of romance in UF. #ufchat
10:10 pm UF_Chat: @kaitnolan So are there more ‘true’ love triangles in UF than PNR then do you think? #UFchat
10:10 pm kaitnolan: @jeremymcnabb Both. Romance is all about overcoming hardships in the name of love. #UFchat
10:10 pm kaitnolan: @jimnduncan I think the lines are blurred a lot more now than they used to be. #UFchat
10:10 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan UF doesn’t require any romance – it has more now than ever due to romance readers influence – they’re the big buyers. #UFchat
10:11 pm MetaPhoenix: Does anyone consider urban science fiction or SF romance to be under the same umbrella as UF and PNR? #UFchat
10:11 pm Cameron_Haley: In romance, is the protagonist’s story goal always a relationship with the love interest? I don’t actually know. #UFchat
10:11 pm jeremymcnabb: @kaitnolan Like it. Thanks! #UFchat
10:11 pm J_GriffinB: Some of the tropes are overdone, or at least over-exposed. #ufchat
10:11 pm UF_Chat: Q: What are some books that you think blur the line between Urban Fantasy & Paranormal Romance? #UFchat

FROM @RCMurphy: @UF_Chat The Anita Blake series started out UF and became PNR. #UFchat

10:11 pm kaitnolan: @UF_Chat I think UF tends to have more series where it’s not settled in 1 book. PNR tends to have a resolution of some kind #UFchat
10:11 pm 1hope1dream: @pauljessup I sort of agree with you here. Noir/horror – yes. Also darker, grittier life w/o the touch of classic (gothic) horror. #UFchat
10:11 pm elizabethkarr: Does the HFN imply a sequel in the offing? #UFchat
10:11 pm Cameron_Haley: Is the love triangle a romance convention? #UFchat
10:12 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @kaitnolan #UFchat The motive for the struggle is what makes the difference.
10:12 pm jimnduncan: Well, PNR has or should have more focus on the romantic relationship. UF I think focuses more on the paranormal world they’re in #ufchat
10:12 pm J_GriffinB: @Cameron_Haley I would say it is a literary convention. #ufchat
10:12 pm kaitnolan: @elizabethkarr Well not every book can properly end with wedding bells implied (traditional HEA), hence the HFN #UFchat
10:12 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Not necessarily though it’s an oft used way of getting to the next one. bittersweet endings are common in UF. #UFchat
10:12 pm kaitnolan: @jimnduncan I think both had best pay attention to the world, otherwise the setting suffers. #UFchat
10:12 pm jeremymcnabb: @jimnduncan #UFchat world-building VS relationship-building
10:13 pm elizabethkarr: As reader, it’s real pleasure 2 follow characters on diff journeys in subsequent books. 1 of the allures of Grafton and Cornwell #UFchat
10:13 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: Buy my book PNR people it’s got some…romance-ish in it. #UFchat
10:13 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan UF does tend to be more plot based – mystery, crime, ticking clock etc – the story is done that that’s solved. #UFchat
10:13 pm UF_Chat: @Ben_Aaronovitch Give us your twitter pitch. #UFchat
10:14 pm J_GriffinB: @kaitnolan Excellent point. #ufchat
10:14 pm kaitnolan: @UF_Chat Lines are seriously blurring w/ that though. More and more the thing that drives the relationship is circumstance in PNR #UFchat
10:14 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat @kaitnolan Of course. 🙂 First time I’m hearing the term HFN and I like it. Life imitating art. That whole thing. #UFchat
10:14 pm UF_Chat: Do we have @Patti_OShea in the house? #UFchat
10:14 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @UF_Chat Harry Potter joins the sweeney. #UFChat
10:15 pm Cameron_Haley: Is it a problem that the lines between PNR and UF are becoming blurred? Or is it a good thing? #UFchat

FROM @RCMurphy: @Cameron_Haley I see it as a good thing. Romance is a very large market. #UFchat

10:15 pm inkgypsy: RT @tasmin21: @Cameron_Haley It’s a very fine line, in a lot of cases./#UFchat
10:15 pm J_GriffinB: @jeremymcnabb heh. #ufchat
10:15 pm Patti_OShea: @UF_Chat I’m here. #ufchat
10:15 pm kaitnolan: @Cameron_Haley That seems to depend on the reader. I love both. Some prefer very specific conventions #UFchat
10:16 pm J_GriffinB: @Patti_OShea Hail! #ufchat
10:16 pm snowppl: @Patti_OShea welcome! 🙂 #ufchat
10:16 pm UF_Chat: Time to welcome special guest @Patti_OShea! Pls hold Q’s for her till near end when have open Q’s. Discussion during welcome. #UFchat
10:16 pm UF_Chat: Delighted to welcome @Patti_OShea, bestselling author of action/adv/PNR as special guest for Q&A! Thx for taking Q’s today Patti! #UFchat
10:16 pm thedaisyharris: Hi. #UFchat
10:16 pm UF_Chat: Patti?s latest ?paranormal action romance? is ?In the Darkest Night? & features ?equal parts passion & horror blend?! (review quote) #UFchat
10:17 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @Cameron_Haley I think you can become fixated on genre distinctions, best to write first label second. #UFchat
10:17 pm UF_Chat: Her ?Edge of Dawn? also just won the 2010 Beacon Award for BEST PARANORMAL! Congrats @Patti_OShea! #UFchat
10:17 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Lot of questions! Let?s see how many we get through. ? (Note S = statement followed by related Q & Q= question) #UFchat
10:17 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: Hello Patti. #UFchat
10:17 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q1: What came first for you? Were you drawn primarily to romance or the paranormal? #UFchat
10:18 pm thedragongem: I prefer UF. I tend to skip over the romance scenes in most books. #UFchat
10:18 pm UF_Chat: @Ben_Aaronovitch Agree – write first – market 2nd – adjust then IF necessary. 😉 #UFchat
10:18 pm 1hope1dream: @Ben_Aaronovitch I agree with you on this one, Ben. Write what you want. Figure out the genre later. #UFchat
10:18 pm Patti_OShea: That’s a chicken/egg question. 🙂 I remember reading books on astrology and other stuff like this in grade school, but I also #ufchat
10:18 pm MetaPhoenix: What adjustments should be made to attract more male readers to PNR? #UFchat
10:18 pm Patti_OShea: remember when I played dolls, Barbie and Ken had a hot romance going on. 🙂 I’ll have to plead having an interest #ufchat
10:18 pm Saffy: Surely UF is a setting/back drop where as PNR is plot? It’s the whole thorny issue of what is Genre again :/ Oh and hello! #UFchat
10:18 pm rixshep: @inkgypsy @tasmin21 @Cameron_Haley IMO, lines getting more blurred between uf, cf, pnr, etc. Only a problem IF confuses readers. #UFchat
10:18 pm Patti_OShea: in both from a young age. #ufchat
10:19 pm UF_Chat: We are just welcoming @Patti_OShea to the ring, er, floor. Please welcome her!#UFchat

FROM @RCMurphy: @UF_Chat You were right with ring. It’s a circus today! #UFchat

10:19 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q2: What were some early influences on a) your overall writing and b) your specific blend of action/adv PNR? #UFchat
10:19 pm kaitnolan: @Patti_OShea Welcome! And congrats on the Beacon! #UFchat
10:19 pm rixshep: #UFchat Other than confusion to potential new readers, it is ALL fantasy, so is, again imo, a good thing! 8-D
10:19 pm mark_henry: #UFchat Hey y’all!
10:20 pm Cameron_Haley: @Ben_Aaronovitch I agree, but I also don’t want folks like Kari’s hubby to pass by my book cause he thinks it’s too romance centric. #UFchat

FROM @RCMurphy: @Cameron_Haley Guns. That’s the secret. If there is enough action in the romance men won’t notice the romance. #UFchat

10:20 pm jimnduncan: Hey Mark! #ufchat
10:20 pm Patti_OShea: @kaitnolan thank you! #ufchat
10:20 pm Patti_OShea: It’s hard to cite specific influences on my writing because I’ve read voraciously my entire life. Some of my favorite authors #ufchat
10:20 pm UF_Chat: @mark_henry *waves* Patti just stepped into the ring… #UFchat
10:20 pm thedragongem: RT @Saffy: Surely UF is a setting/back drop where as PNR is plot? Its the whole thorny issue of what is Genre again :/ Oh and hello! #UFchat
10:20 pm kaitnolan: @Cameron_Haley Ultimately LIFE is about relationships, so I don’t know why they get all kerfluffled about it. #UFchat
10:20 pm Patti_OShea: It’s hard to cite specific influences on my writing because I’ve read voraciously my entire life. Some of my favorite authors are Linda Howard, Jayne Ann Krentz, and Nora Roberts among many, many others. #ufchat
10:20 pm elizabethkarr: Welcome~v interested peer behind the curtain of your book and writing process. #UFchat
10:20 pm tasmin21: Hi, Mark! #ufchat
10:20 pm Patti_OShea: I think movies are behind my love of action/adv rom because until this decade, most books didn’t have a whole lot of action. #ufchat
10:20 pm rixshep: rt @UF_Chat We r just welcoming @Patti_OShea to the ring, er, floor. Please welcome her! #UFchat / Howdy ma’am! #ufchat
10:21 pm Patti_OShea: At least not what I was finding to read. Hollywood, tho, is filled with movies brimming with action and enough romance to #ufchat
10:21 pm Cameron_Haley: Point being, genres and categories *do* have a role to play. We want our readers to know what to expect. #UFchat
10:21 pm Patti_OShea: keep me watching. #ufchat
10:22 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Can you give us some (Hollywood) examples? (I know the Execs LOVE a romance B plot at the least!) #UFchat
10:22 pm mark_henry: @UF_Chat Awesome. Just hangin’ out. Don’t mind me. #UFchat
10:22 pm elizabethkarr: Often find that great writers are also big readers. Makes sense. #UFchat
10:22 pm MetaPhoenix: Auel’s novel The Valley of Horses is a good example of a romance book that male readers enjoy, though it’s more historical than PN. #UFchat

FROM @RCMurphy: @MetaPhoenix Sherrilyn Kenyon’s books are very action based yet are based entirely around the romance. She has tons of male readers #UFchat

10:23 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea Interesting so the screenply format influenced your writing style. If I understand you correctly. #UFchat
10:23 pm Patti_OShea: I love “Speed” and consider it my favorite romance movie. Also, if Terminator hadn’t had Kyle die, I’d call that a romance, too. #ufchat

FROM @RCMurphy: @Patti_OShea I think I like you so much more now. Action in a romance makes it easier for me to read. #UFchat

10:23 pm rixshep: rt @editorialdept @Ben_Aaronovitch @Cameron_Haley Can get fixated on genre distinctions, write 1st label 2nd #ufchat / Yes plz! More! 😉

FROM @RCMurphy: @rixshep Happily ever after/happy for now #UFchat

10:23 pm kaitnolan: @MetaPhoenix I would not at ALL class that as a romance. #UFchat
10:23 pm UF_Chat: @MetaPhoenix Do you think that’s because it’s both explicit & fact heavy or something else? #UFchat
10:23 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q3: Could you please define the difference for us between Paranormal Romance & Urban Fantasy? #UFchat
10:23 pm kaitnolan: @Patti_OShea You totally need to meet my CP. She had me watch Terminator for the romance plot. #UFchat
10:23 pm Patti_OShea: To me, the difference is focus. In PNR, the focus is on the couple and their developing relationship. There’s one hero, one heroine. #ufchat
10:24 pm Patti_OShea: In UF, the focus is on one character, often the heroine, and the world she inhabits. If there’s a romance, it’s usually secondary. #ufchat
10:24 pm J_GriffinB: @UF_Chat both #ufchat
10:24 pm Saffy: @MetaPhoenix *cough* sex scenes! Graphic at least for teenagers #UFchat
10:24 pm mark_henry: What do you think about the “new” sub genre of UF Romance? Does it just cloud the issue further? #UFchat
10:24 pm UF_Chat: @kaitnolan Interesting – maybe guy’s idea of a romance? Jondalar (sp?) is a romantic charac but agree – not Ro by my definition. #UFchat
10:24 pm MetaPhoenix: @Patti_OShea Those films do mix adrenaline and romance almost perfectly. #UFchat
10:25 pm AGypsyLove: @MetaPhoenix I think I’d consider Auel’s books romance on a level. It’s hard to narrow them down bc so much going on. #UFchat
10:25 pm kaitnolan: @Saffy Yeah my 9th grade english teacher considered it p0rn #UFchat
10:25 pm MetaPhoenix: I GTG. Been fun. #Ufchat
10:25 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea So UF is more based in reality. That’s how I see it, too. Less escapism fantasy (which is a good thing 2) #UFchat
10:25 pm UF_Chat: @mark_henry Good glory – there’s a ‘new’ sub-genre of UF Romance? Can you comment on that @Patti_OShea? #UFchat
10:26 pm 1hope1dream: @kaitnolan My mother did too and she about had a heart attack when she caught me reading Auel’s books. #UFchat
10:26 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: Avoid Bridge to terebithia film trailer effect – OK that came out weird. #UFchat
10:26 pm rixshep: rt @UF_Chat @Ben_Aaronovitch Agree – write first – market 2nd – adjust then IF necessary. 😉 #UFchat
10:26 pm ladytechie: @Patti_OShea #UFChat Do you think that the PNR handles sex differently than UF, i.e., explicitness?
10:26 pm J_GriffinB: Pillars of the Earth appears, when a woman tells you about it, to be an historical romance. #ufchat
10:26 pm kaitnolan: @1hope1dream I picked it up thinking it was a horse story. Loved Walter Farley and Margurite Henry. #libraryfail #UFchat
10:27 pm Saffy: @kaitnolan Me and hubby turned out to have both read them whilst really being a bit young :/ #UFchat
10:27 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q3a: So PNR & UF actually have completely different roots & overlap in the addition of paranormal. Is that right? #UFchat
10:27 pm Patti_OShea: @elizabethkarr TBH, I don’t see much difference in “reality” between UF and PNR. Both tell fantastical stories. #ufchat
10:27 pm LaylaMessner: @mark_henry Is there a new subgenre of UF romance?? (Just got here. Hi everyone.) #UFChat
10:27 pm mark_henry: Some authors have definitely tried to push for that monicker. #ufromance #UFchat
10:27 pm 1hope1dream: @elizabethkarr PNR and UF follow the same ‘reality’, as far as I can tell. They just tend to follow different paths. #UFchat
10:27 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea – see you just got a bunch of questions. I’ll wait a bit. 😉 #UFchat
10:27 pm Carolyn_Haven: RT @Patti_OShea: In UF, the focus is on one character, often the heroine, and the world she inhabits. If there’s a romance, it’s usually secondary. #ufchat
10:28 pm Patti_OShea: Tweet chat is moving fast and I’m missing questions. If I don’t answer, please repeat. #ufchat
10:28 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: Make sure your work isn’t marketed under the wrong lable – is what I meant. #UFchat
10:28 pm 1hope1dream: @kaitnolan I saw the movie “Clan of the Cave Bear” at a friend’s house and got dragged into reading the books. #UFchat
10:28 pm jimnduncan: So what do you call a paranormal series with a multi-book romance arc? Is that UF or PNR? #ufchat

FROM PATTI: @jimnduncan If the focus is on the couple, then I’d call it PNR. If the romance is secondary, I’d label it UF.

10:28 pm Cameron_Haley: Yeah, I think the distinction is in what the stories are *about* rather than quantity of reality! 🙂 #UFchat
10:28 pm KevinHearne: Jumping in and it’s all @mark_henry‘s fault. I’ve heard of paranormal romance, but not UF romance. Why are authors pushing for it? #UFChat
10:28 pm UF_Chat: @mark_henry Interesting – wondering what they thought wasn’t being met by the PNR label. #UFchat
10:28 pm Patti_OShea: I think UF and PNR are 2 pts on the same line. It’s just a matter of where btwn those pts a book falls. #ufchat
10:29 pm kaitnolan: @Saffy Ooops 😀 #UFchat
10:29 pm LaylaMessner: @mark_henry Just wondering, cause that’s what I’m writing, but I didn’t know it was considered a subgenre. #UFromance #UFChat
10:29 pm Queryaddict: @KevinHearne I’d bet so they can do a cross genre marketing, more readers to interest your book if it covers more ground #ufchat
10:29 pm UF_Chat: @jimnduncan That question is coming but let’s see if @Patti_OShea caught yours. #UFchat
10:29 pm rixshep: rt @Cameron_Haley Point being, genres & categories *do* have role to play. We want readers to know what to expect. #UFchat / Indeed!
10:29 pm Cameron_Haley: @UF_Chat Presumably, a UF can focus strongly on romantic relationship while still not following romance conventions e.g. HEA/HFN. #UFchat
10:29 pm Patti_OShea: With more UF writers moving toward PNR and more PNR writers moving toward UF, the blurring is substantial. #ufchat
10:29 pm jadettepaige: You sound like me @Patti_OShea remember when I played dolls, Barbie and Ken had a hot romance going on #ufchat
10:29 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea @1hope1dreamWhat I meant is that UF has a wider lens on the character than a narrower focus on romance.Hence more’real’ #UFchat
10:29 pm byharryconnolly: I suspect the diff between PNR and UFRomance is the comfort level of the author. #UFchat Hi, folks!
10:30 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q4: Is that why so many people lump them together? Are there really books that ?blend? the two sub-genres? #UFchat
10:30 pm ladytechie: Do you think that shelving a book in Romance affects its sales in either direction? #UFChat
10:30 pm J_GriffinB: @elizabethkarr hear! hear! #ufchat
10:30 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q4a: Could you give a examples of a successful plot blend? #UFchat
10:30 pm 1hope1dream: @elizabethkarr *nods* That makes sense. #UFchat
10:31 pm kaitnolan: @ladytechie I would think it would turn off men. They’re weird about that. #UFchat
10:31 pm Saffy: @Cameron_Haley What do those acronyms stand for? #UFchat
10:31 pm Ben_Aaronovitch: @ladytechie Did in my branch. #UFChat
10:31 pm UF_Chat: @ladytechie Yes – hard to lose on sales if you get shelved in romance – they’re xlnt buyers BUT does mislead other readers. #UFchat
10:31 pm J_GriffinB: RT @Patti_OShea If the focus is on the couple, then Id call it PNR. If the romance is secondary, Id label it UF.<– That’s accurate #ufchat
10:32 pm Patti_OShea: @UF_Chat Yikes! I think the Crimson City series did a pretty good blend (I wrote book 3) of UF and PNR. They came out in 2005 #ufchat
10:32 pm 1hope1dream: @ladytechie More of my HC romance friends have branched into general fantasy and sci fi now that there are more genre based romances #UFchat
10:32 pm rixshep: rt @Patti_OShea With more UF writers moving toward PNR and more PNR writers moving toward UF, the blurring is substantial. #ufchat / Heh!
10:32 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q5: Your books are high on action, not just straight PNR. Do you find that blurs the lines for readers even more? #UFchat
10:32 pm jadettepaige: Yes. That was a big disappointment. @Patti_OShea Also, if Terminator hadn’t had Kyle die, I’d call that a romance, too. #ufchat
10:32 pm Saffy: @kaitnolan @ladytechie Not just men – I don’t go to romance sections – only started reading it as accidently wrote chicklit :/ #UFchat
10:33 pm jimnduncan: I’d expect there are UF readers who never leave the fantasy shelves and never see the romance shelves and vice verse. #ufchat
10:33 pm KevinHearne: What @kaitnolan said?I’m not picking up a book called UF Romance or PNR. (Not writing them either.) 😉 #UFChat
10:33 pm rixshep: @Cameron_Haley Scuse my ignorance of all the terms: hea/hfn? #ufchat
10:33 pm 1hope1dream: RT @Patti_OShea With more UF writers moving toward PNR and more PNR writers moving toward UF, the blurring is substantial. Agreed. #UFchat
10:33 pm Patti_OShea: Yes, I believe it does. I’ve had some romance readers say I don’t write romance, that I write action/adventure fiction. #ufchat
10:33 pm Patti_OShea: To me, my books *are* without question romances. The hero and heroine usually work together and everything that happens #ufchat is about them changing and growing enough to open up to a lifelong relationship. So what if they’re standing back to back and #ufchat
10:33 pm Cameron_Haley: @rixshep hey, I just learned them here! Happily Ever After/Happy for Now #UFchat
10:34 pm kaitnolan: @Saffy Romance is unfairly stigmatized. It’s not as formulaic as it was in the 80s #UFchat
10:34 pm annettepedersen: RT @kaitnolan: I enjoy a story more if it focuses on relationships–not necessarily romantic ones. Action doesn’t happen in an emotional vacuum. #UFchat
10:34 pm Patti_OShea: fighting evil while they’re falling in love? 🙂 #ufchat
10:34 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea re Kyle (& maybe Crouching Tiger) – is there such a thing as tragic romance? Love declared/returned but death steps in? #UFchat
10:35 pm kaitnolan: @Patti_OShea Which is exactly why I love the blur!!! It kicks ass! #UFchat
10:35 pm 1hope1dream: @Patti_OShea It’s that kind of ‘romance’ I like. The classic formulaic version irritates me for some reason. #UFchat
10:35 pm tasmin21: @UF_Chat Hell, I think the entire Highlander franchise was based around tragic love. #ufchat
10:35 pm Saffy: @kaitnolan Unfortunatly the ones I’ve managed to pick up so far have been exactly what I feared :/ I’m still trying though #UFchat
10:35 pm kaitnolan: @1hope1dream Because a lot of old romance has weak heroines. Modern heroines kick butt. #UFchat
10:36 pm Patti_OShea: @UF_Chat No, to be Romance as in the genre, it must have some kind of happy ending. A main character dying would make it a romantic #ufchat story, but not a Romance #ufchat
10:36 pm elizabethkarr: Online burst of reviewing books helped blur genre lines. Crosstalk exposes peeps to books from sections in bookstore prev ignored. #UFchat
10:36 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Seems a lot of Asian cultures corner the market on that – & Shakespeare of course (Romeo/Juliet). #UFchat
10:36 pm rixshep: @Cameron_Haley Ah, cool! Thanks! 😉 #ufchat
10:36 pm Cameron_Haley: And Dracula! RT @tasmin21: @UF_Chat Hell, I think the entire Highlander franchise was based around tragic love. #UFchat
10:36 pm kaitnolan: @elizabethkarr I love that about the internet. #UFchat
10:36 pm J_GriffinB: RT @Patti_OShea: story, but not a Romance<— I have a lot to learn on the genre front. #ufchat
10:36 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Ah – guessing marketing detail important because romance readers NEED the happy resolution? #UFchat
10:37 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q6: What is it about the paranormal that you love? What are ur favorite ways to add a paranormal element to your books? #UFchat
10:37 pm kaitnolan: @UF_Chat We get kinda crabby if we pick it up expecting a happy resolution and don’t get it w/ no indication of sequel #UFchat
10:37 pm Patti_OShea: @UF_Chat Romance readers will be majorly pissed off if they buy something labeled Romance and the hero or heroine dies. #ufchat
10:37 pm elizabethkarr: @kaitnolan I love that about the internet. < Me, too. Opens lots of new doors & windows. #UFchat
10:37 pm 1hope1dream: @kaitnolan That’s the truth. I’ve read a few modern romances where I liked the heroines. #UFchat
10:38 pm editorialdept: I see a lot of readers being open to crossing genre lines. They appreciate a good story even if it’s outside usual comfort zone. #ufchat
10:38 pm Patti_OShea: @UF_Chat If I pick up fantasy or mystery or SF, I don’t expect there to have to be a happy ending, but Romance. Yes. #ufchat
10:38 pm UF_Chat: Note to #UFchat people: romantic stories and the Romance genre are NOT the same thing. (could be why we get confused) #UFchat
10:38 pm Saffy: @ladytechie The library where I grew up didn’t even have seperate sections for Scifi, horror and fantasy so everything was together #UFchat
10:39 pm Patti_OShea: I love the possibilities of the paranormal. Anything can happen. I also like the fact that the society can be set up in a way that #ufchat
really leaves the hero and/or heroine in a torturous situation. I love to torture my characters. An example would be in my #ufchat
10:39 pm kaitnolan: RT @Patti_OShea: @UF_Chat Rom readers will be pissed off if they buy something labeled Rom & the hero or heroine dies. #wallthumper #UFchat
10:39 pm Patti_OShea: book, EDGE OF DAWN where I have the hero torn between his people and the heroine. He’s in a position where he has to betray #ufchat
10:39 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q7: How do you feel having a paranormal element affects a relationship or romance? #UFchat
10:39 pm Patti_OShea: one or the other, and I don’t think I could get that level of intensity for him and his decision in a regular contemporary world. #ufchat
10:39 pm elizabethkarr: @editorialdept Agree readers open 2 crossing genre lines. Publishers and Studio execs less so. 🙂 We need2 educate them hybrids good #UFchat
10:39 pm Patti_OShea: For me, the paranormal element needs to be organic to the story. If I have to work out how to put it in, then maybe the idea isn’t #ufchat
supposed to be paranormal. And in the PNR I’ve written, the characters have all been something. Half demon, demon, magic users, #ufchat
10:39 pm Saffy: @UF_Chat Ok explain – I can see romatic stories can be within larger story arcs #UFchat
10:39 pm 1hope1dream: @Saffy Same with my libraries. I’ve read from every genre out there, and many of the mixed genre books too. #UFchat
10:39 pm Patti_OShea: vampires. When something is part of the DNA, I don’t have to worry about bringing it in, it’s already there. #ufchat
10:40 pm J_GriffinB: @Patti_OShea I get that, but I hadn’t ben aware of the cold distinction between romance and genres that have an element of romance. #ufchat
10:40 pm Patti_OShea: An author can really go any direction with the paranormal and the romance. It can bring the h/h closer, drive them apart, #ufchat
10:40 pm editorialdept: @elizabethkarr hopefully consumer demand will start to change marketer’s minds re: hybrids #ufchat
10:40 pm Patti_OShea: or not have any impact on them. #ufchat
10:40 pm Patti_OShea: In Crimson Veil, I played it two ways–drawing the h/h together and keeping them apart. The h/h are both half demon and half human, #ufchat
10:40 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q8: Why do you think combining the paranormal & a relationship (or 2) in stories is so popular? What?s the attraction? #UFchat
10:40 pm rixshep: I prefer sf & pure or contemporary fantasy. But can enjoy well written romance in ’em too. ALL (+ uf/pnr) reflects power of myth! #ufchat
10:40 pm Patti_OShea: but while the heroine has embraced her demon half, the hero abhors all demons–even the part of him that is demon. #ufchat
10:41 pm Patti_OShea: So of course they have a bond between them that goes beyond being soul mates. He’s drawn to her wants her more than #ufchat
10:41 pm Patti_OShea: he’s ever wanted any female, but he fights it. Because she’s half demon. And because when he’s with her, the demon part of him #ufchat
10:41 pm Patti_OShea: comes out more strongly. But with IN THE DARKEST NIGHT, the paranormal elements (the hero being a magic-wielding troubleshooter) #ufchat
10:41 pm Patti_OShea: really didn’t play much of a role in the romance. It was why the h/h are together and it played a role in individual growth for both #ufchat
10:41 pm Patti_OShea: characters, but I didn’t see it as affecting their romance very much. #ufchat
10:41 pm LaylaMessner: RT @Patti_OShea: but while the heroine has embraced her demon half, the hero abhors all demons–even the part of him that is demon. #UFChat
10:42 pm Patti_OShea: I’m not sure. Maybe as the real world becomes more and more stressful, people want their fiction to take them farther away #ufchat
10:42 pm J_GriffinB: @Patti_OShea internal conflicts with external effects #ufchat
10:42 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea H/H always need strong obstacle to overcome and paranormal can be that new challenge, maybe 1 not seen before. #UFchat
10:42 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q9: PNR & UF have remained ?hot? long past many predictions. Why do you think that is? Why in this age? #UFchat
10:42 pm Patti_OShea: from reality and paranormal does this. And in a romance, you know that the hero and heroine aren’t going to die during the #ufchat
10:42 pm Patti_OShea: course of the story, that at the end you as a reader are going to feel good. #ufchat
10:42 pm kaitnolan: RT @Patti_OShea: but while the heroine has embraced her demon half, the hero abhors all demons–We love our impossible relationships #UFchat
10:42 pm Patti_OShea: Again, I really think it has to do with the world we live in right now. It can be a scary place. In UF and PNR, the monsters are #ufchat
10:42 pm jadettepaige: @Patti_OShea do you think Laura Croft movies helped move UF higher in awareness with the public? #UFchat
10:42 pm Patti_OShea: generally easy to find because they actually might be monsters. 🙂 The real world is filled with shades of gray and PNR/UF #ufchat tend to be more defined–good versus evil. #ufchat
10:43 pm elizabethkarr: @editorialdept @elizabethkarr hopefully consumer demand will start to change marketer’s minds re: hybrids< See it happening already #UFchat
10:43 pm Saffy: @1hope1dream I actually prefer cross genre :/ #UFchat
10:43 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea S: Romance is one of most ?put down? genres yet also has most prolific, adventurous (outside of genre) & loyal readers. #UFchat
10:43 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea S: Romance readers discovering PNR cross-over is big reason UF took off so no wonder UF covers lean twd romance. #UFchat
10:43 pm Patti_OShea: @jadettepaige I think so. Same with the Buffy TV show. #ufchat
10:44 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q10: People break covers down PNR= woman facing away UF= woman looking at reader. Is generalization accurate? Thoughts? #UFchat
10:44 pm 1hope1dream: @Patti_OShea Impossible relationships are fun to write about. #UFchat
10:44 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q10a: Speculation is typical covers are more a ‘code’ for loyal readers than marketing to potential ones. Thoughts? #UFchat
10:44 pm 1hope1dream: @Saffy Let’s put it this way…if it’s got fantasy or sci fi elements (no matter what else it has) I’ll at least give it a shot. #UFchat
10:44 pm editorialdept: RT @UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea S: Romance is one of most ?put down? genres yet also has most prolific, outside of genre & loyal readers. #ufchat
10:44 pm Patti_OShea: My PNR covers have always had both the h/h on the front. I’ve also seen a lot–really, really a lot–of PNR covers with just #ufchat
10:44 pm rixshep: rt @Patti_OShea Maybe as real world becomes more stressful, ppl want fiction to take them farther away #ufchat / Escapism IS NOT bad thing!
10:44 pm kaitnolan: @UF_Chat That’s certainly not the case with my covers. I write PNR and my heroines look @ reader. Heroes look away. #UFchat
10:44 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea “The real world is filled with shades of gray ” < love this. And ironically that what makes it more colorful. #UFchat
10:45 pm Saffy: OK probably really dim question here but what is the difference between UF and Magic Realism? #UFchat
10:45 pm Patti_OShea: facing away. If I had to generalize, I would have said PNR has the hero on the cover (Half dressed) and UF has the heroine. #ufchat
10:45 pm ladytechie: @UF_Chat Indie manager told me 3 weeks ago that men’s backs are the new thing in PNR covers. I did not realize there was a trend #UFChat.

FROM @RCMurphy:

@ladytechie J.R. Ward uses a lot of male backs for her Black Dagger Brotherhood covers. #UFchat

10:46 pm elizabethkarr: @rixshep Maybe as real world becomes more stressful, ppl want fiction to take them farther away< You’re onto something there. #UFchat
10:46 pm LaylaMessner: RT @Patti_OShea: If I had to generalize, I would have said PNR has the hero on the cover (Half dressed) and UF has the heroine. #UFChat
10:46 pm jeremymcnabb: @UF_Chat Briggs’ Mercedes Thompson series alternates between “toward” and “away” #UFchat
10:46 pm UF_Chat: @Saffy That’s another thin line – more to do with marketing – plus many types of UF. literary UF has lots in common with MagicRealsm #UFchat
10:46 pm editorialdept: @Saffy Magical realism tends to be much more “reality” w/ magic sprinkled on top. UF is bold in focus on fantasy elements #ufchat
10:46 pm jadettepaige: Which is why I love Romance. @Patti_OShea And in a romance, you know that the hero and heroine aren’t going to die during the #ufchat
10:46 pm Patti_OShea: If I missed any questions, please re-ask it. #ufchat
10:46 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea S: PNR is also often credited w bridging gap for guys to read romance. #UFchat
10:47 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q11: Why do you think that is? #UFchat
10:47 pm LaylaMessner: RT @jadettepaige: in a romance, you know that the hero and heroine arent going to die during the #UFChat
10:47 pm Patti_OShea: My theory is that a lot of guys wouldn’t be caught dead in the romance section, 🙂 but the fantasy section is A-OK. So they picked #ufchat
10:47 pm Patti_OShea: up UF, discovered women writers are good, went looking for more books like UF and ended up with some PNR. I’ve had some #ufchat
10:48 pm rixshep: RT @editorialdept: @elizabethkarr hopefully consumer demand will start to change marketer’s minds re: hybrids #ufchat
10:48 pm Patti_OShea: bookstores put my books in the fantasy section and I’ve heard from male readers who found my books there and liked them. #ufchat
10:48 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea S: Also clear Romance readers have influenced writing relationships in UF, especially with regard to sex. #UFchat
10:48 pm Saffy: @editorialdept @UF_Chat Hmmmm this is why I made phase diagrams to cope with genres they are end points not catagories :/ #UFchat thanks
10:48 pm Patti_OShea: Also, at Amazon and other online bookstores, there aren’t sections and books can get tagged with more than one category. #ufchat
10:48 pm Patti_OShea: There’s also readers who bought this also bought… Some of those UF titles have PNR recs on the page. #ufchat
10:48 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q12: Newbie writers to UF & PNR gravitate to writing either a ?Madonna? or a ?Whore?. Thoughts on why? #UFchat
10:48 pm elizabethkarr: Adding paranormal obstacle ups the ante. eg Twilight-Consummation=Death of being human.Hard 2 top that as something to keepH/H apart #UFchat
10:48 pm kaitnolan: @Patti_OShea Do you think the advent of ebooks will see more folks reading PNR b/c nobody can see the covers and judge? #UFchat
10:49 pm Patti_OShea: I’m not sure why that is unless it’s related to stereotypes in some way. It’s easier to write a type than to really dig in and #ufchat
10:49 pm J_GriffinB: RT @Patti_OShea: bookstores put my books in fantasy section and Ive heard from male readers who found my books there & liked. true #ufchat
10:49 pm Patti_OShea: get to know your characters well enough to get past labels. #ufchat
10:49 pm ladytechie: @Patti_OShea Do you think the guys would have not read them if someone had sent them to romance to pick them up? #UFChat
10:50 pm Patti_OShea: @kaitnolan I think it’s going to help a lot. Some of my own covers have embarrassed me. 🙂 #ufchat
10:50 pm LaylaMessner: This is a literalization of the sex/love as death metaphor, I think. RT @elizabethkarr: Twilight-Consummation=Death of being human. #UFChat
10:50 pm rixshep: rt @elizabethkarr @editorialdept Agree readers open 2 crossing genres. Publishers/Studios less so. Educate ’em: hybrids good! #UFchat /Yes!
10:50 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q14: Do you have tips on how to NOT fall into the cliché trap when writing relationships? #UFchat
10:50 pm LaylaMessner: RT @Patti_OShea: get to know your characters well enough to get past labels. #UFChat
10:50 pm Cameron_Haley: Can we get some examples of the “Madonna” and “Whore” generalization. I guess I haven’t noticed that… #UFchat
10:50 pm snowppl: @RCMurphy Tell me about it! #UFchat
10:50 pm Patti_OShea: @ladytechie I think men automatically think sappy when they see romance. There are a lot of us who don’t write sappy. 🙂 #ufchat
10:51 pm Patti_OShea: I’m not sure that holds true anymore. The Hamilton books have a lot more sex in them than a lot of PNR, but her books are still UF. #ufchat
10:51 pm Patti_OShea: I have a lot of fight scenes and action scenes in my books, but I’d still say they’re PNR. I think writers just need to write their #ufchat
10:51 pm Patti_OShea: story and worry about categorizing it after they’re finished. #ufchat
10:51 pm MartinsSecrets: RT @elizabethkarr: Adding paranormal obstacle ups the ante. eg Twilight-Consummation=Death of being human.Hard 2 top that as something to keepH/H apart #UFchat
10:51 pm snowppl: @RCMurphy I haven’t seen you. I have no idea why! 😦 #UFchat
10:52 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Going to skip ahead om the questions as we’re running out of time & want to get to some in particular. #UFchat
10:52 pm Patti_OShea: @J_GriffinB I hear my characters so distinctly in my head, that I haven’t worried about holding voice. They’re tyrants. 🙂 #ufchat
10:52 pm Jinxie_G: @Patti_OShea I totally agree with that! It’s how I write. #UFChat
10:52 pm LaylaMessner: RT @Patti_OShea: I hear my characters so distinctly in my head, that I havent worried about holding voice. Theyre tyrants. 🙂 #UFChat
10:52 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q15: Appear UF has ?supernaturals? 4 MCs & love interests. PNR tends to male supes only. Why not many PNR supe females? #UFchat
10:53 pm Saffy: Tis way past my bedtime – glad I could catch part of this chat – thanks #UFchat @Patti_OShea
10:53 pm Patti_OShea: Wow, really? Guess I’ve been doing it wrong. 🙂 #ufchat
10:53 pm ladytechie: I just want what I expect to be in there. I always said why mess up a good murder with a bunch of love junk. LOL #UFChat
10:53 pm Patti_OShea: I’m immediately thinking through the books I’ve read and I’m coming up with stories in PNR with the heroine a vampire, werewolf, #ufchat angel or whatever. I remember stories better than titles, but Maggie Shayne wrote female vampires back in the Silhouette Shadows #ufchat
10:53 pm rixshep: rt @kaitnolan @Patti_OShea Do u think books will see more folks reading PNR b/c nobody can see covers & judge? #UFchat / Heh! Probably!
10:53 pm 1hope1dream: RT @Patti_OShea: I hear my characters so distinctly in my head, that I havent worried about holding voice. Theyre tyrants. 🙂 #UFchat
10:54 pm Patti_OShea: days and Rebecca Flanders in that same line. Mid 90s maybe? If this really is the trend, I can guess it has to do with making the #ufchat hero alpha. It’s much easier to have an alpha vampire hero and a human heroine who needs his protection than it is to have a #ufchat
10:54 pm snowppl: @RCMurphy yes! you should! @twitter should listen #UFchat
10:54 pm kaitnolan: @UF_Chat Maybe it’s a desire in romance for a larger than life/reality lover? I seem to be missin those books. #UFchat
10:54 pm Patti_OShea: vampire heroine and an alpha human hero. 🙂 Like I said, it was an interesting experience when I wrote IN THE #ufchat
10:54 pm Patti_OShea: MIDNIGHT HOUR. I think I pulled it off, but it definitely wasn’t the easiest writing I’ve ever done. #ufchat
10:54 pm Patti_OShea: In UF where the heroines are expected to kick butt, it’s easier to have her be supernatural. I’m just guessing here on the whys. #ufchat
10:55 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q16: UF r/ships often happen over series. Does PNR require relationship resolution 4 each book or is multi-book arc OK? #UFchat
10:55 pm Patti_OShea: I don’t see why there couldn’t be a PNR with a romance arc that encompasses three books. Personally, as a reader, I prefer #ufchat
10:55 pm Patti_OShea: to have at least some kind of resolution at the end of each book, but Jayne Ann Krentz did this beautifully in a four book #ufchat
10:55 pm Patti_OShea: series of romances. They’re out of print and really hard to find. I spent years tracking them down before I found all of them, #ufchat
10:56 pm Patti_OShea: but the HEA (Happily Ever After) doesn’t happen until the end of the 4th book, but IIRC there were small resolutions between the h/h #ufchat
10:56 pm Patti_OShea: at the end of each book. Like they decide they have something special at the end of book 1 and are going to date exclusively. #ufchat
10:56 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q17: B/c U blend hard action w romance what must U take into account writing fights/action 2 keep relationship central? #UFchat
10:56 pm Patti_OShea: I can’t remember all the smaller resolutions, but they were enough that left the romance open with more to go, but enough #ufchat that I, as a reader, felt satisfied. The series name, BTW, is Guinevere Jones and she wrote them under the name #ufchat
10:56 pm elizabethkarr: i think y paranormal genre growing is it taps into a morphic resonance of unease & uncertainty felt by much of us humans. #UFchat
10:56 pm Patti_OShea: ayne Castle. The first in the series is “Desperate Game.” #ufchat
10:57 pm mark_henry: @UF_Chat That’s where “urban fantasy romance” proponents stand. Romance is over arc, no HEA. But needs a better name. #UFchat
10:57 pm kaitnolan: @elizabethkarr I figure it is as simple as the fact that in tough economic times, real life sucks and paranormal is total escape #UFchat
10:57 pm Patti_OShea: I rarely have my h/h apart, so they’re usually fighting together or fighting to defend the other. Having them worried about #ufchat
each other is how I keep the relationship a priority while all the other stuff is happening. #ufchat
10:57 pm Patti_OShea: When I do have them apart, they’re thinking of each other. Like in MIDNIGHT HOUR, Deke thinks he hears Ryne calling for help, #ufchat
10:57 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea You have totally whetted my appetite to read Jayne Ann Kretz. #UFchat
10:57 pm snowppl: @RCMurphy i’m sorry! #UFchat
10:58 pm Patti_OShea: so he goes outside to rescue her, only to find he was lured from safety by a creature who mimicked her voice. The fight goes on #ufchat for a few pages and then Ryne’s there and they’re both worrying about each other. #ufchat
10:58 pm snowppl: RT @RCMurphy Ugh. I should have checked before the chat. I had some good things to say since PNR & UF mixed are my “thing”. #UFchat
10:58 pm UF_Chat: @mark_henry Ah – but they still require the HEA then? Bittersweet doesn’t qualify? #UFchat
10:58 pm Patti_OShea: It really can be a balancing act if the scenes happen while they’re apart. Yes, they can think about their heroine (or hero), #ufchat
10:58 pm Patti_OShea: but when the fight is getting nitty gritty, they’d be an idiot to lose focus without a good reason. #ufchat
10:58 pm rixshep: @Saffy @editorialdept @UF_Chat => “made phase diagrams to cope with genres” <= Got any examples? Sounds neat! #UFchat
10:58 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q18: What other unusually labeled subgenres would we find your bks in? (ie where else should we be looking?) #UFchat
10:59 pm elizabethkarr: @kaitnolan You got that right! Tough times, we want escape. And best ways are books, movies (and sex). #UFchat
10:59 pm KevinHearne: @mark_henry I second that. UF suggests action, not romance, and that’s what readers expect. #UFChat
10:59 pm Patti_OShea: If you’re asking where I’m shelved in the bookstore, mostly in romance with a few also sticking me in Fantasy/SF. If you’re #ufchat
10:59 pm Patti_OShea: talking about what other genres I wander into either intentionally or unintentionally, I guess horror. Although I never think of #ufchat
10:59 pm mark_henry: @UF_Chat That seems to be their point. Still confuses. #UFchat
10:59 pm Patti_OShea: my books like this, I have had reviewers frequently use the label horror. I also guess I regularly have romantic suspense #ufchat
10:59 pm Patti_OShea: elements in my books as well. #ufchat
11:00 pm jimnduncan: guess my series might qualify as uf romance then, with a multi-book relationship arc, but focus is still on paranormal goings on. #ufchat
11:00 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q19: What series/books are you working on right now? When can we expect your next book? #UFchat
11:00 pm snowppl: @RCMurphy well you could use the twitter site. #UFchat
11:01 pm J_GriffinB: Q: Do you consider yourself a Fantasy writer, then or UF/PNR? #ufchat
11:01 pm Patti_OShea: I have two series proposals being shopped around right now and two or three more I’d like to work on, but right now I’m #ufchat
11:01 pm Patti_OShea: writing a Nocturne Bites. This is Harlequin’s line for PNR short stories. The working title is SHADOW’S CARESS and I don’t #ufchat
11:01 pm Patti_OShea: have a release date yet. The hero is a shade because the heroine who was a vampire hunter didn’t follow all the steps it #ufchat
11:01 pm Patti_OShea: would take to kill him. He needs her to pull the stake so he can return to his life as the undead. So far she’s been shot at #ufchat
11:01 pm Patti_OShea: and driven her car through a railway crossing with the train bearing down on her. 🙂 #ufchat
11:02 pm elizabethkarr: This has been eyeopening. In my mind Syfy & Romance were 2 distinct genres. Subplots yes, but mostly 1 or other. V enlightening. #UFchat
11:02 pm Patti_OShea: @J_GriffinB I call myself a PNR author because my focus is on the romance even though I have a lot of other stuff going on, too. #ufchat
11:02 pm rixshep: rt @elizabethkarr i think y paranormal genre growing is taps into morphic resonance of unease/uncertainty felt by much of us. #UFchat
11:02 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea Now that’s a premise! Run pitch that to a movie studio! 🙂 #UFchat
11:02 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Q20: While we’re waiting for your next book, what other UF &/or PNR books do you recommend we read? #UFchat
11:03 pm J_GriffinB: @Patti_OShea so we won’t see you at World Fantasy? #ufchat
11:03 pm Patti_OShea: I’ve mostly been reading nonfiction lately, but I have read the first 3 books in Laura Anne Gilman’s Retriever’s series and #ufchat
11:03 pm Patti_OShea: really liked them. They’re third person (which I prefer to read over first person) and UF titles. The heroine is a magic #ufchat user who’s also a Retriever (thief). #ufchat
11:03 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr I thin@Patti_OShea‘s books would work brilliantly as movies – if they kept her edge! #UFchat
11:03 pm ladytechie: @Patti_OShea Is it fair to try and have it all in there or is one type of fan bound to be disappointed when an author attempts that? #UFChat
11:04 pm Patti_OShea: @J_GriffinB 🙂 I haven’t gone to any conferences/conventions for the last few years, so no, I’m afraid not. #ufchat
11:04 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarry (Take II) I think @Patti_OShea‘s books would work brilliantly as movies – if they kept her edge! #UFchat
11:04 pm LaylaMessner: Gotta run. Thanks @Patti_OShea and everyone :). #UFChat
11:04 pm snowppl: Okay, have to leave for #free dinner. Can’t pass that up! See you all later! #ufchat
11:04 pm J_GriffinB: @Patti_OShea shucks. #ufchat
11:05 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat I thin@Patti_OShea‘s books would work brilliantly as movies – if they kept her edge!<W/ right producer they will. 🙂 #UFchat
11:05 pm Patti_OShea: @ladytechie Sometimes I think I make no one happy. Some complain there isn’t enough romance, others complain there’s too much Rom. #ufchat
11:05 pm UF_Chat: Over to you guys! Did I miss a question you wanted to ask? @Patti_OShea now. 🙂 #UFchat
11:05 pm kaitnolan: @Pattie_OShea Which is your favorite of your books? #UFchat
11:06 pm 1hope1dream: I’ve got an odd question. What makes UF/PNR different from horror? Or are they similar genres? #UFchat
11:06 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea Remember Lincoln. U can plz some folks all the time, all folks some of time, but u cant plz all folks all the time. 🙂 #UFchat
11:06 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea By your awards & best sellers (& how library always has your books on waiting lists) I think people are very happy. 😉 #UFchat
11:07 pm Patti_OShea: @kaitnolan My favorite book is always the last one that’s completely finished. 🙂 In this case, IN THE DARKEST NIGHT. #ufchat
11:07 pm tasmin21: @1hope1dream My theory: In UF, the supernatural is the world. In Horror, the supernatural is the plot. #ufchat
11:07 pm ellestonewrites: Thanks @Patti_OShea Great chat! #ufchat
11:07 pm inkgypsy: @Patti_OShea RT @1hope1dream: I’ve got an odd question. What makes UF/PNR different from horror? Or are they similar genres? #UFchat
11:07 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea Have u considered adapting books into film? Is that a goal? #UFchat
11:07 pm Patti_OShea: @ellestonewrites thank you! #ufchat
11:08 pm ladytechie: @tasmin21 Good one! #UFChat
11:08 pm UF_Chat: That’s all have time for today! Thx for joining & thank you @Patti_OShea for being so generous with your time & answering questions. #UFchat
11:08 pm Patti_OShea: I’m happy to stick around and answer any questions y’all still have. And if I missed an earlier question, please repost. #ufchat
11:08 pm Patti_OShea: @elizabethkarr I’d like to see my books made into movies, but I’ve no plans to write my own adaptations. #ufchat
11:09 pm Patti_OShea: @1hope1dream I haven’t read enough horror to know the answer to this question #ufchat
11:09 pm inkgypsy: RT @tasmin21: @1hope1dream My theory: In UF, the supernatural is the world. In Horror, the supernatural is the plot. #ufchat
11:09 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea @UF_Chat Thank you. Great to be in the room. Excellent conversation. #UFchat
11:10 pm Patti_OShea: @elizabethkarr thank you! #ufchat
11:10 pm UF_Chat: Patti is generously offering to hang out for a bit and answer some more questions. Throw them in! #UFchat
11:10 pm kaitnolan: @Patti_OShea Great chat! Thanks for coming! #UFchat
11:10 pm 1hope1dream: @tasmin21 That’s an interesting point. #UFchat
11:10 pm rixshep: @Patti_OShea Btw, I found your answers (and resulting convos) to be excellent, even if I couldn’t keep up w/all of them! Thanks! #ufchat
11:10 pm 1hope1dream: @Patti_OShea Thanks for answering our questions! #UFchat
11:10 pm Patti_OShea: @tasmin21 thank you! #ufchat
11:11 pm Patti_OShea: @rixshep Thank you! It is hard to keep up, isn’t it? I’m worried I missed questions. #ufchat
11:11 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea (2 more?) Q: Why do you think ?alpha males? are popular and are they really as popular as some make them out to be? #UFchat
11:11 pm Patti_OShea: @1hope1dream you’re welcome! Thanks for coming to the chat! #ufchat
11:12 pm Patti_OShea: Alpha heroes are hugely popular from what I see. My whole theory is that the stronger the heroine is, the stronger the hero needs #ufchat
11:12 pm Patti_OShea: to be and vice versa. When I read, I want to see the hero out kicking butt with the heroine, not home watching the stock #ufchat
11:12 pm kaitnolan: @UF_Chat I think it’s because in fiction you can have an alpha and get the fantasy but IRL an alpha would be hard to live with. #UFchat
11:12 pm elizabethkarr: @Patti_OShea That’s smart to focus on novels whch you excel at. Adapting novels into screenplays is whole other skill set. #UFchat
11:12 pm Patti_OShea: reports while his heroine is risking her life. Also, when you see one character (whether is the hero or the heroine) who’s really #ufchat
11:12 pm Patti_OShea: alpha and you see them with some beta character, don’t you think, “what do you see in her/him?” I know I do. #ufchat
11:13 pm Patti_OShea: I like a partnership of equals. When I wrote IN THE MIDNIGHT HOUR, my hero was human and my heroine was a #ufchat
11:13 pm rixshep: Well, time to head out (dinner is ready!), but I’ll check later to see the late comments. Still hoping to see some phase diagrams! #ufchat
11:13 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea I’m tweeting your website & more but if people have questions, feedback etc how can they contact you? #UFchat
11:13 pm pattioshea: I just got put in Twitter Jail. Using a second account to answer #ufchat
11:14 pm pattioshea: magic-wielding, butt-kicking troubleshooter. But he’s still alpha. He’s an ex-LAPD officer and a PI. He doesn’t take well to sitting #ufchat
11:14 pm pattioshea: on the sidelines and I made sure to show his frustration with having to stand back and let the heroine fight the battles. I alsomade #ufchat
11:14 pm pattioshea: sure he had a couple of opportunities to fight on his own to show he is alpha. They balanced each other in an interesting #ufchat
11:14 pm pattioshea: way with Deke being the more emotionally grounded. #ufchat
11:15 pm pattioshea: They can @reply me @Patti_OShea or email me patti@pattioshea.com #ufchat
11:15 pm 1hope1dream: Time for me to escape from the chats and get back to the WIP. Later all! #UFchat
11:15 pm UF_Chat: @Patti_OShea Seriously awesome answers & food for thought! Thank you SO much for your time today. We wish you only best sellers! #UFchat
11:15 pm Jamgrrl: Interesting. RT @tasmin21: @1hope1dream My theory: In UF, the supernatural is the world. In Horror, the supernatural is the plot. #ufchat
11:16 pm UF_Chat: That?s a wrap for our special Q&A on PNR & UF today! #UFchat
11:16 pm UF_Chat: Transcript 4 today?s chat on UF/PNR overlap will be on #UFchat blog within 36hrs (apocalypses excepted). Follow @UF_Chat 4 updates! #UFchat
11:16 pm tasmin21: Great chat, folks! I’m off to do domestic stuffs. #ufchat
11:17 pm UF_Chat: Next will be tweeting LINKS on/about @Patti_OShea?s books: #UFchat
11:17 pm UF_Chat: Patti?s website (actionrom.com) w xlnt blog on writing characters & relationships & much more http://bit.ly/9gWXHO #UFchat
11:17 pm 1hope1dream: Before I run, one more comment here…I don’t care what the subgenre is. It’s ALL speculative fiction and it’s all good. 😉 #UFchat
11:17 pm UF_Chat: A guest post by @Patti_OShea on the importance of relationships in her books & deleting scenes http://bit.ly/13rJK4 #UFchat
11:17 pm UF_Chat: Patti O?Shea?s Oooh Moment at the Paranormal Romance Blog http://bit.ly/cBEDWH #UFchat
11:18 pm UF_Chat: @1hope1dream Agreed! #UFchat
11:18 pm UF_Chat: Awesome interview with Patti O?Shea at Bitten By Paranormal Romance http://bit.ly/cTZjd2 #UFchat
11:20 pm UF_Chat: Patti’s website also has a bunch of excerpts you can read -get a preview piece of the action (& the love) http://www.pattioshea.com/ #UFchat
11:20 pm UF_Chat: To be tweeted next: some resources discussing Paranormal Romance and Urban Fantasy together: #UFchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: Because It?s Shiny by @ShilohWalker http://bit.ly/bfbptg (Why she writes PNR) #UFchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: Editorial Roundtable: The Roots of Paranormal Romance/Urban Fantasy (for Tor.com blog) http://bit.ly/caJoFu #UFchat
11:21 pm UF_Chat: What Is Paranormal Romance? By Paul Guran (for Juno books) http://bit.ly/coiSIZ #UFchat
11:22 pm UF_Chat: Books That Blur the Line: Pt 1 by Rebecca @ Dirty Sexy Books http://bit.ly/aHzz3V #UFchat
11:22 pm UF_Chat: Books That Blur the Line: Pt 2 by Abigail @ All Thing Urban Fantasy http://bit.ly/aLJrzd #UFchat
11:22 pm UF_Chat: Upcoming TOPIC: UF – The Good, the Bad & the Untapped: Urban Fantasy Pet Peeves & Wish Lists #UFchat
11:23 pm UF_Chat: We are slowly making a list of UF authors on Twitter on #UFchat blog site. Please suggest more @inkgypsy or @snowppl #UFchat
11:23 pm elizabethkarr: Enjoyed meeting u all. I’m film producer of @rfamovie. Adaptation of Philip K Dick novel, http://www.radiofreealbemuth.com #UFchat
11:24 pm UF_Chat: Aug 21 #UFchat session going dark. 😉 Transcript available on #UFchat‘s blog in 36hrs-ish, allowing for late comments to be added. #UFchat
11:25 pm UF_Chat: @elizabethkarr Nice to see you today! Thank you for joining us (& please consider @Patti_OShea‘s bks for a film! 😉 #UFchat
11:25 pm MartinsSecrets: RT @elizabethkarr: Enjoyed meeting u all. I’m film producer of @rfamovie. Adaptation of Philip K Dick novel, http://www.radiofreealbemuth.com #UFchat
11:27 pm elizabethkarr: @UF_Chat am excited to read @patti_oshea books. New 2 twitter, I’m amazed at all the wonders out there, including #UFchat
11:31 pm inkgypsy: @MRDunn12 Plenty OK to lurk! There’s so much to read & keep up with! Just say hi so we know you’re there. 🙂 Thanks tons for coming. #UFchat
11:34 pm UF_Chat: Tons info in today’s #UFchat! (check hashtag) Like mini-conference! Thx to @Patti_OShea for the awesome. Late comments welcome(use hashtag).
11:34 pm inkgypsy: Tons info in today’s #UFchat! (check hashtag) Like mini-conference! Thx to @Patti_OShea for the awesome. Late comments welcome(use hashtag).
11:40 pm Tartipants: RT @kaitnolan @Patti_OShea Great chat! Thanks for coming! #UFchat http://foook.com
11:42 pm jensenmary30: my books like this, I have had reviewers frequently use the label horror. I also guess I regularly have romantic suspense #ufchat
August 22, 2010
12:23 am rixshep: RT @1hope1dream: Before I run, one more comment here…I don’t care what the subgenre is. It’s ALL speculative fiction and it’s all good. 😉 #UFchat
1:53 am inkgypsy: 101 weapons for women (from 1991!) Actually, this is good story stuff… http://bit.ly/aVS3DE #UFchat #fightscenes
7:53 am AnassaRh: Suspect I’ll be pretty quiet on the #ufchat comments tonight. Not familliar with romance, paranormal or otherwise.
8:49 am AnassaRh: @Saffy A friend reads lots of magic realism, describes it as “reality made magical”. Dreams, altered states, coincidences, etc. #ufchat
11:27 am kltworld: I wasn’t able to participate, but I read through many of the comments for last night’s #UFchat. Great information! Thanks!
5:45 pm tadbo: RT @UF_Chat: Editorial Roundtable: The Roots of Paranormal Romance/Urban Fantasy (for Tor.com blog) http://bit.ly/caJoFu #UFchat
8:45 pm sarahmakela: RT @tasmin21: I dont think UF & Romance conventions R alike. Romance wld be romance, be it w/ humans or creatures. UF…not so much. #ufchat

___________________________________

END OF TRANSCRIPT FOR AUGUST 21st, 2010

Thanks for a great chat everyone! Hopefully we cleared up some questions, opened some doors and sparked some ideas. (Why do I have the feeling a lot of people will be re-watching Terminator this week? 😉

Be sure to check out Patti’s links, the resource posts/essays and more tweeted at the end of the chat time.

The “Published UF authors on Twitter” page for the blog (check the link at the very top of the page) is slowly growing (there are a LOT of UF authors on Twitter!) and it’s and linked it to a list on Twitter for easy following.

If you see someone you think should be on there, there’s a good chance we just haven’t gotten to adding them yet BUT please always feel free to add suggestions by @-ing @inkgypsy or @snowppl and we’ll add them to the list ASAP.

Stay tuned to @UF_Chat on Twitter for details on next week’s topic.

See you next week!

Gypsy (@inkgypsy)

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